[194239] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Patrick W. Gilmore)
Tue Mar 28 22:26:00 2017
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:25:54 -0400
In-Reply-To: <910954015.5141.1490753919520.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>
To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Thanks, I was a bit confused why you said it, which is apparently =
because I was confused. :-)
I agree we need to do a better job educating users why this is =
important.
And just so my opinion is clear, if there were a true market, I would =
not mind ISPs who did this (with proper notice). Unfortunately, over =
half of all households in the US have one or fewer choices for broadband =
providers. I am one of them. What do I do if my ISP wants to collect my =
data? VPN everything?
--=20
TTFN,
patrick
> On Mar 28, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
>=20
> It was more a plea to educate the list on why this matters vs. doom =
and gloom with a little more gloom and a little less Carmack. Instead I =
got more of the sky is falling.
>=20
> Note that I don't intend to ever do this at my ISP, nor my IX.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> =
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> =
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> =
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> =
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> =
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> =
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net =
<mailto:patrick@ianai.net>>
> To: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and =
engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal
>=20
> Mike:
>=20
> My guess is you do not.
>=20
> Which is -precisely- why the users (proletariat?) need to find a way =
to stop you. Hence laws & regulations.
>=20
> Later in this thread you said =E2=80=9Cwe are done here=E2=80=9D. =
Would that you were so lucky.
>=20
> --=20
> TTFN,
> patrick
>=20
> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net =
<mailto:nanog@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >=20
> > Why am I supposed to care?=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > -----=20
> > Mike Hammett=20
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions=20
> >=20
> > Midwest Internet Exchange=20
> >=20
> > The Brothers WISP=20
> >=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >=20
> > From: "Rich Kulawiec" <rsk@gsp.org <mailto:rsk@gsp.org>>=20
> > To: nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>=20
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:45:25 PM=20
> > Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and =
engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal=20
> >=20
> > On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 06:45:04PM +0000, Mel Beckman wrote:=20
> >> The claim oft presented by people favoring this customer abuse is =
that=20
> >> the sold data is anonymous. But it's been well-established that =
very=20
> >> simple data aggregation techniques can develop signatures that =
reveal=20
> >> the identity of people in anonymized data.=20
> >=20
> > This needs to be repeated loudly and often at every possible =
opportunity.=20
> > I've spent much of the past decade studying this issue and the most =
succinct=20
> > way I can put it is that however good you (generic "you") think=20
> > de-anonymization techniques are, you're wrong: they're way better =
than that.=20
> > Billions, and I am not exaggerating even a little bit, have been =
spent=20
> > on this problem, and they've been spent by smart people with =
essentially=20
> > unlimited computational resources. And whaddaya know, they've =
succeeded.=20
> >=20
> > So if someone presents you a data corpus and says "this data is =
anonymized",=20
> > the default response should be to mock them, because there is a very =
high=20
> > probability they're either (a) lying or (b) wrong.=20
> >=20
> > Incidentally, I'm also a signatory of the EFF document, since of =
course=20
> > with nearly 40 years in the field I'm a mere clueless newbie and =
despite=20
> > ripping them a new one about once every other month, I'm clearly a =
tool=20
> > of Google.=20
> >=20
> > ---rsk=20
