[194161] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Purchased IPv4 Woes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mike Hammett)
Mon Mar 20 10:25:23 2017
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:25:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAC6=tfZAeyCvOxJ_EUPpKDdZvKepq-nWqE-yKOnGn453yD-kpw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
He did mention Hotmail.=20
-----=20
Mike Hammett=20
Intelligent Computing Solutions=20
Midwest Internet Exchange=20
The Brothers WISP=20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Reynolds" <josh@kyneticwifi.com>=20
To: "Justin Wilson" <lists@mtin.net>=20
Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=20
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:06:00 AM=20
Subject: Re: Purchased IPv4 Woes=20
Would you mind naming the company so that they can be publicly shamed? That=
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is nothing sort of extortion.=20
On Mar 19, 2017 10:36 PM, "Justin Wilson" <lists@mtin.net> wrote:=20
>=20
> Then you have the lists which want money to be removed. I have an IP that=
=20
> was blacklisted by hotmail. Just a single IP. I have gone through the=20
> procedures that are referenced in the return e-mails. No response. My=20
> next step says something about a $2500 fee to have it investigated. I kno=
w=20
> several blacklists which are this way. Luckily, many admins do not use=20
> such lists.=20
>=20
>=20
> Justin Wilson=20
> j2sw@mtin.net=20
>=20
> ---=20
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO=20
> xISP Solutions- Consulting =E2=80=93 Data Centers - Bandwidth=20
>=20
> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman=20
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric=20
>=20
> > On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Bob Evans <bob@FiberInternetCenter.com>=20
> wrote:=20
> >=20
> > Pete's right about how IPs get put on the lists. In fact, let us not=20
> > forget that these lists were mostly created with volunteers - some stil=
l=20
> > today. Many are very old lists. Enterprise networks select lists by som=
e=20
> > sort of popularity / fame - etc.. Like how they decide to install 8.8.8=
.8=20
> > as first - its easy and they think its better than their local ISP they=
=20
> > pay.... yet they always call the ISP about slowness when 8.8.8.8 is for=
=20
> > consumers and doesn't always resolve quickly. It's a tough sale.=20
> >=20
> > Once had a customer's employee abuse their mail server - it made some=
=20
> > lists. Customer complained our network is hosting spammers and sticking=
=20
> > them in the middle of a problem that is our networks. Hard win. Took us=
=20
> > months to get that IP off lists. That was one single IP. We did not all=
ow=20
> > them to renew their contract once the term was over. Now, they suffer=
=20
> with=20
> > comcast for business. ;-)=20
> >=20
> > Thank You=20
> > Bob Evans=20
> > CTO=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >> On Sun, 12 Mar 2017, Pete Baldwin wrote:=20
> >>=20
> >>> So this is is really the question I had, and this is why I was=20
> >>> wanting to=20
> >>> start a dialog here, hoping that it wasn't out of line for the list. =
I=20
> >>> don't=20
> >>> know of a way to let a bunch of operators know that they should remov=
e=20
> >>> something without using something like this mailing list.=20
> Blacklists=20
> >>> are=20
> >>> supposed to fill this role so that one operator doesn't have to try a=
nd=20
> >>> contact thousands of other operators individually, he/she just has to=
=20
> >>> appeal=20
> >>> to the blacklist and once delisted all should be well in short order.=
=20
> >>>=20
> >>> In cases where companies have their own internal lists, or only=20
> >>> update=20
> >>> them a couple of times a year from the major lists, I don't know of=
=20
> >>> another=20
> >>> way to notify everyone.=20
> >>=20
> >> I suspect you'll find many of the private "blacklistings" are hand=20
> >> maintained (added to as needed, never removed from unless requested) a=
nd=20
> >> you'll need to play whack-a-mole, reaching out to each network as you=
=20
> find=20
> >> they have the space blocked on their mail servers or null routed on=20
> their=20
> >> networks. I doubt your message here will be seen by many of the "right=
=20
> >> people." How many company mail server admins read NANOG? How many=20
> >> companies even do email in-house and have mail server admins anymore? =
:)=20
> >>=20
> >> Back when my [at that time] employer was issued some of 69/8, I found =
it=20
> >> useful to setup a host with IPs in 69/8 and in one of our older IP=20
> blocks,=20
> >> and then do both automated reachability testing and allow anyone to do=
a=20
> >> traceroute from both source IPs simultaneously, keeping the results in=
a=20
> >> DB. If you find there are many networks actually null routing your=20
> >> purchased space, you might setup something similar.=20
> >>=20
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
> >> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route=20
> >> | therefore you are=20
> >> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________=
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> >>=20
> >=20
> >=20
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