[1920] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: larger space was: Re: [NIC-....
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Carl Payne)
Thu Feb 15 17:43:10 1996
From: Carl Payne <cpayne@fiber.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 15:18:25 -0700
To: nanog@merit.edu
Reply-To: cpayne@fiber.net
>How exactly does a larger address space ease deployment of an ISP?=20
Y'know, I almost answered this, and decided against it. After reading this =
whole note, I realized it wasn't conversation, it was argument, and I almost =
came underdressed.
>"Current thinking" of who? Sure we should conserve space, but that was
>not my argument. =20
Your argument was that:
> >The whole point of getting the bigger address space is to be better than=20=
> >your competition (multi-homed, etc etc.)
And I'm telling you with fairly solid certainty that the point of address =
space of any kind has NOTHING to do with position on the totem pole or being =
"better than your competition." Based on your last note, we should wantonly =
acquire larger blocks and one-up GenericISP because doing so is an available =
weapon prescribed by the IANA.
>Ever seen a nasty catfight between small local ISPs?=20
Do you realize who you're talking to?
The problem is the users, not the ISPs. Any user worth two cents of online =
time can pick the liars out of the mix and go to the superior provider. We =
don't have many "low-end" AOL types, virtual domain =
wanna-be-in-business-on-the-Internet yahoos because the morons across town =
do a better job of downright LYING to them. Try and tell one of those =
clowns you're multi-homed, or have Cisco 7000s over 2501s, tell them you're =
connected to NAPs, not the larger provider on the other end of town, and =
tell them you've been doing IP for almost 10 years. They don't know the =
difference, and they don't care. They see the schmooze, and they hear the =
speel, and they see the price is lower. Y'know what? They buy it. Fine. =
I'm not in this business to keep other people from making money. I wish the =
opposite were true too.
I don't hold my competitors nearly as responsible for this as I used to. =
The fact is, the lusers can't even appreciate the argument. There are just =
too many customers and too many greedy ISPs with sights set on getting money =
from all of them.
Can you imagine what this world would look like if there were ANY other =
industry with as many clueless consumers as clueless vendors? I can just =
see the automobile market now, or the airline industry. Hell, a restaurant. =
=20
"Oh, can you tell me about your food, please? Filet mignon? Well, the =
place that sells food over there has some for a tiny fraction of your price. =
No, they call theirs a Big Mac. Your beef is range-bred and USDA Grade A? =
No, theirs is farm-grown, frozen; I don't know for how long. Well, I can =
buy fifty of their Big Macs and resell them, but by the time I get just two =
of yours sold they'll go rotten and be no better than theirs. Seems theirs =
has a longer halflife."
Or health care:
"Yes, I'd like your prices on medical attention, please."
"Sure, how can I help you?"
"I require medical attention. The place across town offers it for X"
"Oh, we're MUCH cheaper than that. Our overhead is VERY low, and we pass on =
the savings to you."
"Well, I think I'm going to need to make a decision immediately."
"I can have our complete line of medical facilities ready to deploy in =
fifteen seconds."
"Well, they said they were AMA rated, had something called "doctors" on =
staff, and said they accepted all kinds of insurance."
"That's just marketing. You're here now, we're ready now, we can take care =
of you now and for a lot cheaper. Trust me: those people can't give as good =
service as we can because they're too big for their own good."
"Well, they said they had an operating room, "surgeons," and something =
called an intensive care unit. What do you have?"
"We have these brand new Zee first aid kits! And, we have TEN of them!"
<patient drops dead of the heart attack that started before he even walked =
in>
It doesn't stop there. We have twenty-station hands-on labs in two counties =
and have a pretty extensive set of courses Internet and non-'Net related. =
Our turnout is about even with the guys with the weekly free seminars.
And people wonder why the dropouts have such a bad taste in their mouth and =
decry the Internet's success.
>I have no interest in your real estate, but I *KNOW* that customers of
>most, if not all ISPs care about the reliability of their network, ergo,
>the connectivity that their ISP has to its neighbors and that IS a=20
>selling point.
Please rephrase this wordy sentence using the English Language.
>If your sales people (for all of you small ISPs out there that don't have
>connections to 3+ NAPs) aren't using the "We are connected at TWO points
>where [insert rival network name here]'s network is only connected to
>ONE!" pitch, you have the wrong sales people.=20
Then thank God you have them all.
>PS: can you format your text for 80 columns next time so that I don't have=20=
> to do it in my reply?
It is. BTW, you're set to 60
While we're on the topic, why did you CC me if I'm on the list? Do you =
think so highly of your words that you feel I need two copies? Or three? =
Before you know it, I'll be in the CC line of every replicated reply. STOP =
CCing ME IF I'M ON THE LIST!
Carl=
