[191080] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Zayo Extortion
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Fischer)
Wed Aug 17 04:10:06 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <98886F8D-BB5A-4852-B32B-60D279D9F858@beckman.org>
From: Steven Fischer <sfischer1967@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:42:52 -0400
To: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org>
Cc: Anne Mitchell <amitchell@isipp.com>, "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
For the record: Extortion(n) Law. *the crime of obtaining money or some
other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.* Not sure
if (according to the provided account) a service provider threatening to
disable a critical business service unless rendered a sum of money the
service provider cannot prove they are owed qualifies as extortion, but
from the definition I found at dictionary.com, it is certainly seems to be
in that general neighborhood.
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
> Jon,
>
> You're mistaken. This has nothing to do with being or not being an
> FCC-controlled medium. It has to do with published statements that may no=
t
> be true -- which are classified as libel, not slander (slander is spoken,
> libel is written). If you post it in a mailing list, or on Facebook, it's
> legally considered published, as long as one other person not party to th=
e
> matter can view it.
>
> You're also mistaken about how the law works. The person making the
> assertion has the burden of proof. If you say someone is an extortionist,
> you'd better be able to prove it. All the plaintiff has to do is say "You=
r
> honor, I've been libeled, and here are my damages. Please make the
> defendant compensate me." You will be subpoenaed, and at court the judge
> will turn to you and say "Where is the proof of your claims?" If you can=
't
> deliver, the judgement will go against you.
>
> The plaintiff doesn't have to prove a thing. In fact, his claim will
> automatically be accepted and processed by the legal system up until you
> appear in court. The cost for you before that point could be thousands of
> dollars. If you don't show up for court, you automatically lose.
>
> -mel beckman
>
> -mel beckman
>
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Jonathan Hall <jhall@futuresouth.us<mailto:j
> hall@futuresouth.us>> wrote:
>
> Excuse me for chiming in, here=E2=80=A6 But, if I=E2=80=99m not mistaken =
(don=E2=80=99t worry, I=E2=80=99m
> not) - this doesn=E2=80=99t count as =E2=80=98slander=E2=80=99 in any way=
, shape or form. This mail
> thread is not any kind of valid FCC controlled or public communications
> device, as the internet was actually excluded from the public
> communications device list under the Freedom of Speech Act in=E2=80=A6 Wa=
s it,
> 1996? Which means, =E2=80=98slander=E2=80=99 can=E2=80=99t be called in t=
his case. You could argue
> that it can, but you=E2=80=99d lose in court in the long run.
>
> If you=E2=80=99re aiming for the defamation card? That=E2=80=99s a very d=
ifficult one to
> prove. I=E2=80=99d counter the argument in a court room by asking the jud=
ge to
> prove the plaintiff is NOT an extortionist scum bag. It certainly works
> both ways. And either way, defamation requires some form of punitive dama=
ge
> be proven in order to actually win that case. Are you saying that the
> company he is referencing has some way to claim and directly correlate a
> loss of income or potential loss of income, either present and/or future,
> due to the comment made on a mail group? I=E2=80=99d love to see that
> quantification on paper...
>
> None the less, regardless of what one accuses or says on the internet, th=
e
> usage of the word =E2=80=98extortion=E2=80=99 is quite open for interpret=
ation with regards
> to context, and making such a statement does not qualify for slander nor
> defamation. He could feel he=E2=80=99s being extorted, in which case exas=
perating
> his opinion publicly is no less legal than me telling you that I don=E2=
=80=99t
> really think you=E2=80=99re a good lawyer.
>
> Good luck trying to play that card in a courtroom.
>
> Short and simple: One could threaten to sue over it, and one could even
> try. Personally, I=E2=80=99d turn that court room in to a circus act if s=
omeone
> tried. I=E2=80=99d most likely get fined in contempt a few times, but at =
least even
> the judge will go home laughing. :)
>
> J
>
> On 16 Aug 2016, at 16:45, Anne Mitchell <amitchell@isipp.com<mailto:am
> itchell@isipp.com>> wrote:
>
>
> to say "our accounting system does not track invoice details -- it only
> shows the total amount due so your numbers mean nothing to us."
> All the while they relentlessly levied disconnect threats with short
> timelines such as: "if you don't pay us $128,000 by this Friday,
> we will shut your operation down."
> [...]
> At one point their lawyers and accounting people had the nerve to say "ou=
r
> accounting system does not track invoice details
>
> Are you talking with your SP's lawyers without your a legal team of
> your own present and advising you?
> I think one of the first things they should tell you is not to discuss
> pending disputes in public. Time to get
> a consultation with your own Lawyers to assist with billing dispute
> resolution, ASAP.
>
> Not to mention that accusing someone of a crime (extortion), in public (i=
n
> this context I would argue that this is public, especially as the term
> 'community' was used in the allegation) is a pretty serious thing.
>
> Anne P. Mitchell,
> Attorney at Law
> Legislative Consultant
> CEO/President,
> SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification and Inbox Delivery Assistance
> http://www.SuretyMail.com/<http://www.suretymail.com/>
> http://www.SuretyMail.eu/<http://www.suretymail.eu/>
>
> Available for consultations by special arrangement.
>
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Member, California Bar Cyberspace Law Committee
> Member, Colorado Cybersecurity Consortium
> Member, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Committee
> Ret. Professor of Law, Lincoln Law School of San Jose
> Ret. Chair, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> amitchell@isipp.com<mailto:amitchell@isipp.com> | @AnnePMitchell
> Facebook/AnnePMitchell | LinkedIn/in/annemitchell
>
>
>
>
--=20
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his
glorious presence without fault and with great joy
