[190167] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: NANOG67 - Tipping point of community and sponsor bashing?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Nurani Nimpuno)
Fri Jun 17 03:16:53 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Nurani Nimpuno <nurani@netnod.se>
In-Reply-To: <CAFJiuFrD9hcjtHCmArybgPSb1sgdxZsoR3L3E+sLgUx8MDOjUw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:16:48 +0200
To: Dave Temkin <dave@temk.in>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Hi Dave,
> On 16 juni 2016, at 16:40, Dave Temkin <dave@temk.in> wrote:
<snip>
> Nothing in my presentation said "Netflix seeks to get better port =
fees". You'll find that I, not once, in my deck or oral presentation, =
mentioned Netflix. I spoke at length with LINX after the presentation =
and pointed out that I seek to help the entire market, not just my =
employer, better understand how IXPs price their services, what things =
are negotiable, and what things need to change. Call it thinly-veiled, =
but I didn't even use my employer slide master - this was geared as a =
community discussion.
Ok.
> And I don=E2=80=99t represent a membership-based IXP.
>=20
> An important distinction. Poring through =
http://www.netnod.se/about/documents , there is very little transparency =
into the actual operations of NetNod.=20
Well, we do describe our governance structure and we are always clear =
about being owned by a foundation on our information material. We even =
present financial figures at our Netnod meetings.=20
But ok, maybe this could be better documented on our website. Fair =
enough. Our current website sucks somewhat and we=E2=80=99re in the =
process of reworking it, so I=E2=80=99ll take your point onboard and =
we=E2=80=99ll try to improve this.=20
> If you stop adding value to those networks peering at the IX, you =
will slowly become irrelevant.
>=20
> And therein lies the rub, we (many of us, not just you and I) disagree =
about what "adding value" is defined as. I'm glad we can have this =
conversation.
Yes. And we will never agree. You and I may of course agree in one point =
in time, but all the world=E2=80=99s operators will never agree. I think =
this thread has proven that. Some seem to argue that all IXPs should =
simply be a donated L2 switch sitting in free rack space, while others =
clearly need more than that.=20
Having a discussion about that is useful, I agree. And it=E2=80=99s a =
discussion that will continue to evolve as the industry evolves. And it =
will maybe also reach different conclusions for LINX, as opposed to =
INEX, LONAP or Netnod (which was the point I was trying to make about =
diversity). Also, as we know, IXPs is not the only solution to =
interconnection. =20
To me it was not clear that this is the conversation you wanted to have. =
If that=E2=80=99s the case, then great!
<snip>
> We work in a similar way with our pricing. (You mention that there is =
a lot of negotiations on pricing with IXPs.) I would like to be 100% =
clear that for the Netnod IX, we don=E2=80=99t negotiate or give =
=E2=80=9Csweet deals=E2=80=9D to anyone. We publish our fee schedule and =
we stick to it. Whenever someone wants a special deal (which happens =
often, particularly with the larger customers), our response is that we =
treat everyone equally. If you want a cheaper deal, then another =
customer is basically funding your reduction. So we don=E2=80=99t do =
this. We believe this is more fair and transparent.
>=20
> That's fantastic, and I agree with this approach. And that's why it's =
important to make this a community discussion, not a "Netflix and =
Netnod" discussion.
This is slightly different (although somewhat related) to =E2=80=9Cwhat =
value do IXPs bring?=E2=80=9D. This is about keeping the IXPs honest. =
Like Nick, I=E2=80=99m all for that.=20
> As for a general discussion about costs, service levels and IXPs, I =
think there is a very interesting discussion that could be had with a =
more focused discussion. How do =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D best serve today's =
very diverse set of operators? How does an IXP strike that balance? How =
do operators best solve their interconnection needs (through IXPs, =
private peering, transit etc) and is that changing? What type of =
interconnection environment do we believe best scales Internet growth in =
the future? What is the total cost of interconnection, where are the big =
costs, what are the different models and where is the whole industry =
moving? Now THOSE are discussions I personally would find very valuable!
>=20
> We agree. I'm really glad that this has sprouted so many threads of =
discussion. This seems to have kicked off the discussion within the =
larger community beyond just the four examples, and I think that what =
we've seen thus far is healthy discourse.=20
Sure. A broader discussion would be both useful and interesting.
Nurani
