[190140] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: NANOG67 - Tipping point of community and sponsor bashing?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Dave Temkin)
Thu Jun 16 10:41:28 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <9DBE06AF-E738-465B-9D19-A8270AFA1AF0@netnod.se>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:40:08 -0500
From: Dave Temkin <dave@temk.in>
To: Nurani Nimpuno <nurani@netnod.se>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Hi Nurani,
Much of what you've asked me below is answered up-thread, so I'm not going
to rehash it for the sanity of the others following this discussion. I have
snipped what hasn't been.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Nurani Nimpuno <nurani@netnod.se> wrote:
>
>
> I take your point about the Netnod fees (even though I would also like t=
o
> point out that we have actually reduced our other port fees for 100mbps,
> 1G, remote peering). But I=E2=80=99m not sure why you haven=E2=80=99t bro=
ught it to us
> directly. Netflix has been at several Netnod meetings in the past, so we
> have had plenty of opportunity to discuss this.
>
Nothing in my presentation said "Netflix seeks to get better port fees".
You'll find that I, not once, in my deck or oral presentation, mentioned
Netflix. I spoke at length with LINX after the presentation and pointed out
that I seek to help the entire market, not just my employer, better
understand how IXPs price their services, what things are negotiable, and
what things need to change. Call it thinly-veiled, but I didn't even use my
employer slide master - this was geared as a community discussion.
> And I don=E2=80=99t represent a membership-based IXP.
>
An important distinction. Poring through
http://www.netnod.se/about/documents , there is very little transparency
into the actual operations of NetNod.
>
> If you stop adding value to those networks peering at the IX, you will
> slowly become irrelevant.
>
And therein lies the rub, we (many of us, not just you and I) disagree
about what "adding value" is defined as. I'm glad we can have this
conversation.
>
> While some think that a good technical solution would sell itself, I
> believe that is a fallacy (not only in the IXP world). Netnod started out
> as a very small IXPs with only a few local operators connected to it. And=
I
> strongly believe that if we hadn=E2=80=99t done as much outreach as we do=
, we
> would=E2=80=99ve stayed tiny until this day.
>
Outreach is fantastic!
>
>
> We work in a similar way with our pricing. (You mention that there is a
> lot of negotiations on pricing with IXPs.) I would like to be 100% clear
> that for the Netnod IX, we don=E2=80=99t negotiate or give =E2=80=9Csweet=
deals=E2=80=9D to anyone.
> We publish our fee schedule and we stick to it. Whenever someone wants a
> special deal (which happens often, particularly with the larger customers=
),
> our response is that we treat everyone equally. If you want a cheaper dea=
l,
> then another customer is basically funding your reduction. So we don=E2=
=80=99t do
> this. We believe this is more fair and transparent.
>
That's fantastic, and I agree with this approach. And that's why it's
important to make this a community discussion, not a "Netflix and Netnod"
discussion.
>
> As for a general discussion about costs, service levels and IXPs, I think
> there is a very interesting discussion that could be had with a more
> focused discussion. How do =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D best serve today's very d=
iverse set of
> operators? How does an IXP strike that balance? How do operators best sol=
ve
> their interconnection needs (through IXPs, private peering, transit etc)
> and is that changing? What type of interconnection environment do we
> believe best scales Internet growth in the future? What is the total cost
> of interconnection, where are the big costs, what are the different model=
s
> and where is the whole industry moving? Now THOSE are discussions I
> personally would find very valuable!
>
We agree. I'm really glad that this has sprouted so many threads of
discussion. This seems to have kicked off the discussion within the larger
community beyond just the four examples, and I think that what we've seen
thus far is healthy discourse.
