[189875] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Netflix banning HE tunnels
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Tony Hain)
Wed Jun 8 13:46:12 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: "Tony Hain" <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
To: "'Ca By'" <cb.list6@gmail.com>,
"'chris'" <tknchris@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAD6AjGQAo79BbYG2yLjPqOx-=TfZb_B7=rh+MACSO9h_+swZzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:45:54 -0700
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alh-ietf@tndh.net
Cc: 'NANOG list' <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Ca By wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > it really feels alot like what net neutrality was supposed to avoid.
> > making a policy where there is different treatment of one set of =
bits
> > over another
> >
> > "your ipv6 bits are bad but if you turn it off the ipv4 bits are =
just fine"
> >
> > someone mentioned the fact that netflix is not just a content =
company
> > but also acting as a network operator maybe the two should be =
separate
> >
> > i also find it ironic that they arent big fans of ISPs who use NAT =
or
> > CGN and dont have 1 customer per IP yet their stifiling ipv6 and
> > telling users to turn it off. you really cant have it both ways and
> > complain about NAT and also say you recommend shutting off ipv6 :)
> >
> > hopefully they will realize imposing their own policy on how =
customers
> > use their networks and the internet this isnt worth losing =
customers
> > over
> >
> > chris
> >
> >
>=20
> Again. An HE tunnel is not production ipv6. It is a toy.
Well, "service that works" from an OTT provider vs. "useless crap that =
is unsupported" from the L2 provider would beg to differ about the =
definition of toy. While there has been substantial effort by the =
participants on this list to get IPv6 deployed across their national =
network, the local support team from my ISP continues to give me the =
"IPv6 is not supported" crap response when I complain that all I am =
getting for a business class connection is a /64, and I need a /48.=20
>=20
> Telling people to turn of HE tunnel is NOT the same as turning off
> production ipv6.
Rather than telling people to turn off IPv6, Netflix should have just =
redirected to an IPv4-only name and let that geo-loc deal with it. If =
the account was trying to use a vpn to bypass geo-loc, it would still =
fail, but those trying to bypass lethargic ISP deployment/support of =
IPv6 would not notice unless they looked. Given that they are likely =
watching the Netflix content at the time, they would be very unlikely to =
notice the packet headers so this would never have become an issue.=20
Fortunately in my case since I view Netflix through Chromecasts, I can =
turn off IPv6 on the media subnet and not impact the rest of my IPv6 =
use. I shouldn't have to do that, but the ability to isolate traffic is =
one reason people on this list need to get over the historic perception =
that a customer network is a single flat subnet. Allocating space on =
that assumption simply perpetuates the problems that come along with it. =
There is no technical reason to allocate anything longer than a /48, but =
for those that insist on doing so, please, please, please, don't go =
longer than a /56. Even a phone is a router that happens to have a voice =
app built in, so mobile providers need to stop the assumption that "it =
only needs a single subnet".=20
Tony
>=20
> CB
>=20
>=20
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@velea.eu
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > apparently, all they see is 3 people complaining on this mailing =
list..
> > > well, this makes it 4 with me (and I have a bunch of people in
> > > various countries complaining on facebook that they have been =
banned
> > > from using netflix because they use an HE tunnel.
> > >
> > > their answer - TURN IPV6 OFF!!! you're a techie so if you know how
> > > to setup a tunnel, you must know how to redirect netflix to use =
IPv4
> only...
> > > really?
> > > the answer just pisses me off!
> > >
> > > Netflix, YOU are the ones forcing people to turn IPv4 off... this =
is
> > > just insane. tens (if not hundred) of thousands of people chose to
> > > use HE tunnels because their ISP does not offer IPv6..
> > > do you really expect all of them to turn it off? do you really =
want
> > > IPv6 usage in the world to go down by a few percent because you =
are
> > > unable to figure out how to serve content?
> > >
> > > I know nobody at Netflix will even answer to the e-mails on this =
list..
> > > but I hope that they will at least acknowledge the problem and
> > > figure an other way to block content by country.
> > > ie: they could try to talk to HE to register each tunnel in a
> > > database that points to the country of the user..
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > elvis
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/8/16 1:01 AM, chris wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am also in the same boat with a whole subnet affected even
> > >> without a tunnel, tried multiple netflix support channels =
starting
> > >> in early march and the ranges is still blocked 3 months later.
> > >>
> > >> I was a big fan of the service and somewhat of an addict up till
> > >> this
> > but
> > >> I've really been shocked how this has been (mis)handled
> > >>
> > >> chris
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Davide Davini =
<diotonante@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Today I discovered Netflix flagged my IPv6 IP block as =
"proxy/VPN"
> > >> and I
> > >>> can't use it if I don't disable the HE tunnel, which is the only
> > >>> way
> > for
> > >>> me to have IPv6 at the moment.
> > >>>
> > >>> But the fun part has been Netflix tech support:
> > >>> "Oh I see, yeah we have been receiving reports of some other
> > >>> members with ipv6 having this issues, at the moment Netflix is =
not
> > >>> really designed to work with ipv6 connections, in this case I =
can
> > >>> recommend
> > you
> > >>> two things, one is to turn off the ipv6 and the other one will =
be
> > >>> to contact directly with Hurricane Electric, there are some
> > >>> customers that were able to use Netflix with an ipv6 under some
> > >>> specific settings set by Hurricane Electric."
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't obviously expect HE to fix it, I don't pay for shit, =
it's
> > >>> a
> > free
> > >>> service, why should they?
> > >>>
> > >>> But it's fun to know that " Netflix is not really designed to =
work
> > >>> with
> > >>> ipv6 connections ".
> > >>>
> > >>> Who did it say on this ML that the best way to solve these =
issues
> > >>> is Netflix tech support? :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Ciao,
> > >>> Davide Davini
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> >
