[189854] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Netflix banning HE tunnels
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Wed Jun 8 11:19:58 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAD6AjGS5tpswR_CRnszrfea4=W1KwtHGQGXEpvhxK+Y6fN4dEg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:19:52 -0400
To: Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
> On Jun 7, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I disagree. if they have no native v6 then theres no reason why they
>> shouldnt be able to use the v6 from HE and why should the internet =
treat
>> that users traffic any differently because its coming from HE or =
tunneled?
>>=20
>>=20
> This is not about ipv6, it is about an anonymous tunnel.
Contrary to your repeated assertions, HE tunnels are NOT anonymous.
HE operates a perfectly fine RWHOIS server that provides sufficient =
information
about each tunnel that it cannot be considered anonymous.
>=20
>=20
>> Theres also tons of folks affected who arent on HE, arent tunneling, =
etc.
>> Theres been many people affected who are being told something is =
wrong with
>> their network that works fine for anything other than netflix.
>>=20
>> chris
>>=20
>=20
> Agreed. This is also not about ipv6. Doing geo-location based DRM is =
hard
> and IMHO painful for all parties involved.
>=20
> My point is IPv6 should not be the collateral damage or conflated in =
an
> issue that has nothing to do ipv6. This is about an anonymous tunnel
> service and strict DRM rules.
No, Cameron, this is about Netflix telling people to turn off IPv6.
Admittedly, the above issues are what is leading them to this point, but =
their
proposed solution =E2=80=9Cturn off IPv6=E2=80=9D remains the core =
problem being raised here.
> IPv6 works fine. Tunnels and VPN and Netflix do not work fine.
This is like saying =E2=80=9Cairplanes work fine, it=E2=80=99s just =
airlines that suck.=E2=80=9D
While it=E2=80=99s technically true, airlines are the only experience of =
airplanes
that most people every get access to.
Owen
>=20
> CB
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cb.list6@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tknchris@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> it really feels alot like what net neutrality was supposed to =
avoid.
>>>> making
>>>> a policy where there is different treatment of one set of bits over
>>>> another
>>>>=20
>>>> "your ipv6 bits are bad but if you turn it off the ipv4 bits are =
just
>>>> fine"
>>>>=20
>>>> someone mentioned the fact that netflix is not just a content =
company but
>>>> also acting as a network operator maybe the two should be separate
>>>>=20
>>>> i also find it ironic that they arent big fans of ISPs who use NAT =
or CGN
>>>> and dont have 1 customer per IP yet their stifiling ipv6 and =
telling
>>>> users
>>>> to turn it off. you really cant have it both ways and complain =
about NAT
>>>> and also say you recommend shutting off ipv6 :)
>>>>=20
>>>> hopefully they will realize imposing their own policy on how =
customers
>>>> use
>>>> their networks and the internet this isnt worth losing customers =
over
>>>>=20
>>>> chris
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Again. An HE tunnel is not production ipv6. It is a toy.
>>>=20
>>> Telling people to turn of HE tunnel is NOT the same as turning off
>>> production ipv6.
>>>=20
>>> CB
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@velea.eu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> apparently, all they see is 3 people complaining on this mailing =
list..
>>>>> well, this makes it 4 with me (and I have a bunch of people in =
various
>>>>> countries complaining on facebook that they have been banned from =
using
>>>>> netflix because they use an HE tunnel.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> their answer - TURN IPV6 OFF!!! you're a techie so if you know how =
to
>>>>> setup a tunnel, you must know how to redirect netflix to use IPv4
>>>> only...
>>>>> really?
>>>>> the answer just pisses me off!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Netflix, YOU are the ones forcing people to turn IPv4 off... this =
is
>>>> just
>>>>> insane. tens (if not hundred) of thousands of people chose to use =
HE
>>>>> tunnels because their ISP does not offer IPv6..
>>>>> do you really expect all of them to turn it off? do you really =
want
>>>> IPv6
>>>>> usage in the world to go down by a few percent because you are =
unable
>>>> to
>>>>> figure out how to serve content?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I know nobody at Netflix will even answer to the e-mails on this =
list..
>>>>> but I hope that they will at least acknowledge the problem and =
figure
>>>> an
>>>>> other way to block content by country.
>>>>> ie: they could try to talk to HE to register each tunnel in a =
database
>>>>> that points to the country of the user..
>>>>>=20
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> elvis
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 6/8/16 1:01 AM, chris wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I am also in the same boat with a whole subnet affected even =
without a
>>>>>> tunnel, tried multiple netflix support channels starting in early
>>>> march
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the ranges is still blocked 3 months later.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I was a big fan of the service and somewhat of an addict up till =
this
>>>> but
>>>>>> I've really been shocked how this has been (mis)handled
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> chris
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Davide Davini =
<diotonante@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Today I discovered Netflix flagged my IPv6 IP block as =
"proxy/VPN"
>>>> and I
>>>>>>> can't use it if I don't disable the HE tunnel, which is the only =
way
>>>> for
>>>>>>> me to have IPv6 at the moment.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> But the fun part has been Netflix tech support:
>>>>>>> "Oh I see, yeah we have been receiving reports of some other =
members
>>>>>>> with ipv6 having this issues, at the moment Netflix is not =
really
>>>>>>> designed to work with ipv6 connections, in this case I can =
recommend
>>>> you
>>>>>>> two things, one is to turn off the ipv6 and the other one will =
be to
>>>>>>> contact directly with Hurricane Electric, there are some =
customers
>>>> that
>>>>>>> were able to use Netflix with an ipv6 under some specific =
settings
>>>> set
>>>>>>> by Hurricane Electric."
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I don't obviously expect HE to fix it, I don't pay for shit, =
it's a
>>>> free
>>>>>>> service, why should they?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> But it's fun to know that " Netflix is not really designed to =
work
>>>> with
>>>>>>> ipv6 connections ".
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Who did it say on this ML that the best way to solve these =
issues is
>>>>>>> Netflix tech support? :)
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>> Davide Davini
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
