[189640] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Cryptographrix)
Fri Jun 3 19:00:15 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <9578293AE169674F9A048B2BC9A081B401E661A134@MUNPRDMBXA1.medline.com>
From: Cryptographrix <cryptographrix@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 23:00:02 +0000
To: "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com>,
"nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
"What you are NOT allowed to do is impose new requirements on our Internet
to support your business licensing models and make it our problem"
They're not imposing *new* regulation on *your* internet to support their
business licensing models - they're imposing *existing* (and international)
regulations on someone else's business that *existing* distributors provide
controls for.
And that many *existing* online distributors provide controls for - hence
why they should be using the *most local* method of locating a person - ask
for permission to get the location from their *device first* (as is
possible nowadays), then try to get the location from any one of other
fallback methods (namely, IP geolocation).
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:22 PM Naslund, Steve <SNaslund@medline.com> wrote:
> ISPs should not be in the business of helping distributors come up with
> =E2=80=9Cnovel ways=E2=80=9D to help them regionalize. It=E2=80=99s coun=
terproductive to the ISPs
> main purpose which is to get their customers =E2=80=9Cthe whole Internet=
=E2=80=9D, from
> anywhere to anywhere no matter where you are.
>
> As far as TV channels, that is an unrelated issue because they have their
> own distribution network, they can freely choose what cable systems and
> what satellite systems they want to license to. What you are NOT allowed
> to do is impose new requirements on our Internet to support your business
> licensing models and make it our problem. This is no different than
> someone like Microsoft saying =E2=80=9Chey service providers, we don=E2=
=80=99t want you to
> carry any network traffic from illegal copies of Outlook=E2=80=9D and exp=
ecting us
> to figure it out. I know as service providers we have to be sensitive to
> our customers but Netflix is also a service provider and should be taking
> the heat from their own customers. Netflix authored a broken process and
> now we should be expected to re-engineer the network to eliminate V6 tunn=
el
> brokers?!?!?! I don=E2=80=99t think so Netflix.
>
> If I was still an ISP today, I would be sending all of my customers a mem=
o
> explaining how badly Netflix VPN detection works and why it is so hard fo=
r
> us to help with it and why they should be complaining to Netflix.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> From: Cryptographrix [mailto:cryptographrix@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 5:06 PM
> To: Naslund, Steve; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
>
> There's really no point in whining about content providers and
> regionalization as long as TV channels are still a thing.
>
> I get that the internet totally annihilated borders of all kind (includin=
g
> the book store), but some businesses change slower than others, and conte=
nt
> production is still back in the black-and-white TV days because even new
> content producers don't have that new of a business model.
>
> But nor are ISPs coming up with novel ways for distributors to offer more
> reliable regionalization services (and most of them were in the content
> regionalization business long before the Internet came around).
>
> Pick one of those two problems and make a business to solve them.
>
> Until then, Netflix's developers could at least use the "novel" solution
> of tiering the most accurate forms of location before hitting IP
> geolocation.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:52 PM Naslund, Steve <SNaslund@medline.com
> <mailto:SNaslund@medline.com>> wrote:
> Actually it's time for Netflix to get out of the network transport
> business and tell the content providers to get over it or not get carried
> on Netflix. It used to be that Netflix needed content providers, now I a=
m
> starting to believe it might be the other way around. Netflix might have
> to take a page from the satellite guys and start calling them out
> publicly. i.e. "Netflix will no longer be able to provide you with Warne=
r
> Bros. content because they are dinosaurs that are worried that someone
> might be watching in the wrong country. We are pleased to offer you
> content from producers that are not complete morons...."
>
> As the content producers lose more and more control over the distribution
> channel they are going to take whatever terms are necessary to get them o=
n
> Netflix, Apple TV, Comcast, Time Warner, DirecTV and Dish. If you are no=
t
> on any or all of those platforms, you are going to be dead meat. Who
> would be hurt worse, Netflix or the movie producer that got seen nowhere =
on
> their latest film. To me, this is the last gasp of an industry that lost
> control of its distribution channel years ago and is still trying to impo=
se
> that control.
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.or=
g>]
> On Behalf Of Mark Andrews
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 4:28 PM
> To: Laszlo Hanyecz
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
> Subject: Re: Netflix VPN detection - actual engineer needed
>
>
> It's time for Netflix to offer IPv6 tunnels. That way they can correlate
> IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. Longest match will result is the correct source
> address being selected if they do the job correctly.
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org<mailto:
> marka@isc.org>
>
