[188294] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Matthew D. Hardeman)
Mon Mar 14 14:31:59 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" <mhardeman@ipifony.com>
In-Reply-To: <40be6ecf49914224ac4eb6aa4e756688@pur-vm-exch13n1.ox.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:31:56 -0500
To: Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
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I understand. I tend to take a more market by market view of each =
network rather than a global perspective. Clearly, for the enterprise =
use case with a diversity of users spread across the globe, or even =
nationally, the use case is a bit different.
Having said that, I am rather terribly curious... I=E2=80=99ve not =
really seen any of the major national non-eyeballs who didn=E2=80=99t =
have congestion at some peering points to major eyeball networks for not =
insignificant periods.=20
Which transit have you found to be the very best for minimizing those =
concerns in the general case?
> On Mar 14, 2016, at 1:23 PM, Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com> wrote:
>=20
> We don't serve a market. We are a private business. We are multi-homed =
with multiple providers, none of which is an eyeball network. Even if we =
wanted to peer, most of them are not available in our area, but our the =
only choice for some of our employees.
>=20
> Cogent still has congestion issues at various peering points as has =
been reported in this and other mailing lists recently. Like I said, if =
VOIP and VPN aren't an issue, go ahead and use cogent. But if packet =
loss makes your access useless, then avoid them if it all possible. =
YMMV.
>=20
> ----
> Matthew Huff | 1 Manhattanville Rd
> Director of Operations | Purchase, NY 10577
> OTA Management LLC | Phone: 914-460-4039
> aim: matthewbhuff | Fax: 914-694-5669
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matthew D. Hardeman [mailto:mhardeman@ipifony.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:41 PM
>> To: Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com>
>> Cc: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us>; James Milko <jmilko@gmail.com>;
>> nanog@nanog.org
>> Subject: Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
>>=20
>> I would have concurred on this not so very long ago, but Cogent has =
made
>> serious strides in improving this.
>>=20
>> In particular, I think Cogent is fairly trustworthy to at least AT&T =
and
>> Verizon at this point.
>>=20
>> As for Charter, Comcast, Cox, and the like, I=E2=80=99ve come to =
believe that
>> there=E2=80=99s really no substitute for direct interconnection to =
those guys if
>> they=E2=80=99re part of the market you serve.
>>=20
>> My clients are mostly ISPs and ITSPs and for the over-the-top ITSPs, =
if
>> they=E2=80=99re serving clients whose broadband access is one of the =
major cable
>> providers, I always encourage the client to establish a BGP session
>> directly into that provider (whether purchasing enterprise transit =
from
>> them, but just accepting customer routes and advertising with a no-
>> export prefix or formal paid peering, etc.)
>>=20
>> The impact that it has on service quality is measurable and it=E2=80=99=
s a
>> significant impact in many cases.
>>=20
>>> On Mar 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Matthew Huff <mhuff@ox.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> One caveat about Cogent even as a third or extra provider.
>>>=20
>>> Because of disputes with eyeball networks, there is significant
>> congestion at peering points with Cogent. We saw consistent 5-10% =
packet
>> loss over many months traversing Cogent through to Charger, Cox and
>> Verizon as well as others. For web access and even streaming video, =
with
>> buffers, this might not be an issue. But for corporate use with VOIP
>> and/or VPNs, it was a killer. We had to cancel our Cogent service and
>> work with our remaining providers to de-preference Cogent completely.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ----
>>> Matthew Huff | 1 Manhattanville Rd
>>> Director of Operations | Purchase, NY 10577
>>> OTA Management LLC | Phone: 914-460-4039
>>> aim: matthewbhuff | Fax: 914-694-5669
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of William
>> Herrin
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:47 AM
>>>> To: James Milko <jmilko@gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:14 AM, James Milko <jmilko@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:32 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> At the very least, no one who is clueful about "The Internet" is
>>>>>> single-homed to Cogent with any protocol.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> s/single-homed/dual-homed/
>>>>>=20
>>>>> It's not like losing Google/HE because your other transit dropped =
is
>>>>> acceptable.
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>=20
>>>> Cogent is effective at reducing cost as the third or subsequent
>> provider
>>>> in one's mix.
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bill Herrin
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us
>>>> Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>=20
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