[188190] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Cogent - Google - HE Fun
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Matthew D. Hardeman)
Thu Mar 10 17:53:34 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: "Matthew D. Hardeman" <mhardeman@ipifony.com>
In-Reply-To: <20160310222957.C2B8D44412DD@rock.dv.isc.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:53:31 -0600
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
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Mark,
I certainly agree that intentional harm of a purely malicious nature is =
to be discouraged.
What I proposed, as an alternative to some of the more extreme =
mechanisms being discussed, is a mechanism whereby IPv6 _customers_ of =
Cogent transit services--and who also receive IPv6 transit from at least =
one other relationship--can modify their IPv6 advertisements to Cogent =
such that they utilize that transit link with Cogent for the one thing =
you can reliably count on it for in the IPv6 world: reaching other =
Cogent IPv6 customers, especially the single-homed ones.
In essence, adding BGP community =E2=80=9C174:3000=E2=80=9D to your IPv6 =
advertisements to Cogent instructs Cogent that this route should only be =
advertised internal to Cogent and to Cogent=E2=80=99s customers. It =
should not be announced to peers. Combining that with prepends of your =
own AS in the IPv6 advertisements to Cogent also reduces traffic from =
other multi-homed Cogent IPv6 customers. In any event, if enough Cogent =
customers do this, it does greatly reduce the amount of traffic that =
Cogent gets to transit from their various IPv6 peers while still =
avoiding harm to innocent end-users (or for that matter, to guilty end =
users).
The mechanism I proposed has numerous benefits:
1. It utilizes only a mechanism created by Cogent and documented for =
use by Cogent transit customers to achieve routing policy that benefits =
IPv6 customers of Cogent.
2. It causes no harm to single-homed Cogent customers.
3. It causes no direct harm to Cogent. The sole indirect harm that it =
might bring upon Cogent if adopted en-masse would be to significantly =
drop the amount of traffic crossing Cogent=E2=80=99s SFI peerings on =
IPv6, which I acknowledge may have consequences for Cogent. If it did =
have such consequences, it=E2=80=99s Cogent=E2=80=99s game and =
Cogent=E2=80=99s rules. They could change it any time. If it =
indirectly harms Cogent by lowering overall traffic volume on paid =
multi-homed customer transit connections, Cogent could easily remedy =
that by becoming an IPv6 network that one would want to exchange IPv6 =
transit traffic with rather than being an IPv6 network that one =
begrudgingly pays because one does business with others who are Cogent =
single-homed.
I do reiterate, however, that I would strongly discourage any kind of =
routing tricks that leave the innocent Cogent customers out in the cold. =
That hurts those Cogent customers as well as you and/or your own =
customers and users. Please, someone, think of the end-users here.
My advice to Cogent would be to remember something real simple: When =
Big Boss #1 at RandomCorp has no trouble reaching Google services all =
night every night at home and then he comes to work and his office =
Internet does everything but Google=E2=80=A6. What he=E2=80=99ll =
remember is =E2=80=9CCharter works with Google, whoever we=E2=80=99re =
using at the office doesn=E2=80=99t. Let=E2=80=99s switch.=E2=80=9D =
It=E2=80=99s shocking to me that an ISP with a retail segment thinks you =
can survive if Google doesn=E2=80=99t work, no matter what Google did to =
ensure it played out that way. Frankly, Google could scream that they =
cut Cogent off because they didn=E2=80=99t like Cogent=E2=80=99s face =
and no one at retail would care. They just want their Gmail back. If =
Google wanted to force the issue faster, they could just stop the IPv4 =
transit routes to Cogent. I think they=E2=80=99re taking a more =
balanced and conservative approach though.
Thanks,
Matt Hardeman
> On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> I don't think anyone should be colluding to hurt Cogent or anyone
> else for that matter and this thread appears to be heading in this
> direction.
>=20
> Mark
> --=20
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
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