[187472] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Cable Operator List
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniel Corbe)
Tue Feb 2 11:08:52 2016
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Daniel Corbe <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMDdSzMrRhTRZzTEVEk_xTA2P45GgOBF9two1wf0AZJhXO-uRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 11:08:45 -0500
To: Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
In-line below.
-Daniel
> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> =
wrote:
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> Daniel,
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> Thanks for the wealth of information. What kind of speeds are you =
offering? How many customers are you putting on one of these boxes? What =
modems are you using?
We=E2=80=99re using Arris modems because we have the least amount of =
signal-related issues with them. We=E2=80=99ve had to drop to 64qam =
because portions of our network runs over the air and we run into SNR =
issues at 256qam on the downstream. This is important because it =
basically halves our available bandwidth. I quoted some figures below =
based strictly on channel width but the reality of our situation is we =
see about half those numbers.
We don=E2=80=99t cap our users. Every modem on the network can bond all =
16 channels if it=E2=80=99s capable and it wants to. We=E2=80=99ve got =
one plan. Which means they can burst as high as they want within =
reason. Every month we=E2=80=99re in contact with the top talkers in =
each sector and we ask them to curb their bandwidth usage. =20
With this model we get about 50 to 75 users to every 16 channel CMTS we =
deploy. In a 200 unit apartment building, we=E2=80=99d deploy 4 to 6 =
boxes. On a 2000 user airbox station, we=E2=80=99d deploy about 20 of =
them. =20
There=E2=80=99s also one more consideration. Our TV service is IPTV. =
Since we=E2=80=99re not pumping DVB-C or DVB-S signal down the cable, =
we=E2=80=99ve got nearly a full Ghz of spectrum with which to use for =
DOCSIS channels. This gives us a lot of flexibility to just add =
additional CMTS when we begin to run into capacity issues.
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> I would honestly perfer something that was hardened for outdoor use. =
Think garden style apartments. What is the best for something like that?=20=
I=E2=80=99m sure someone somewhere makes an environmentally hardened =
CMTS but I=E2=80=99m not currently aware of any at the moment. Most of =
my equipment sits in wiring closets.=20
> Any reasons not to use EURO DOCSIS in the USA? Looks like it offers =
more speeds by using fatter channels. We don't plan on offering TV, but =
even if we did couldn't we just start the channels at a higher range, =
and still use EURO DOCSIS?=20
EuroDOCSIS would be a better option if you=E2=80=99re looking to =
maximize bits per hertz and have enough spectrum to play with. You get =
8Mhz channels for 6Mhz channels which means at 16 channels you=E2=80=99ll =
get 800Mbit/sec to a modem instead of 640Mbit.
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> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Daniel Corbe <dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> =
wrote:
> Hey Colton,
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> We=E2=80=99re using small 16 channel CMTS systems for residential MDUs =
and colocating them directly on premise inside of wiring closets and =
then connecting them by metro ethernet. We=E2=80=99ve had great =
successes so far with this model.
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> There=E2=80=99s lots of CMTS vendors.
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> There=E2=80=99s tons of used Motorola BSR 64Ks on the market, but be =
aware of the lack of useful IPv6 features (like prefix delegation) in =
older software releases. If you buy a box and want to run 7.x or 8.x, =
you=E2=80=99ll need to relicense your downstream and upstream channels =
at some additional arbitrary fixed cost.
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> I=E2=80=99m personally fond of these things:
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> http://picodigital.com/product-details.php?ID=3DminiCMTS200a
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> You can only bond 16 channels together max though because that=E2=80=99s=
all the box supports and you can=E2=80=99t bond across boxes; however, =
these things are less than 4 grand if you buy them in bulk so they=E2=80=99=
re really fucking easy to just spam everywhere.
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> Blonder Tongue makes a pizza-box style CMTS too:
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> =
http://www.blondertongue.com/shop-by-department/catv/ip-over-coax/docsis/e=
uro-docsis/
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> As does Harmonics:
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> http://harmonicinc.com/product/cable-edge/nsg-exo
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> All three are based on the same chipset, so the real differentiation =
is price and firmware features.
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> Then there=E2=80=99s Cisco.
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> The UBR is a popular platform. And pretty soon there=E2=80=99s going =
to be a glut of UBR10Ks on the Market because Comcast is busy ripping =
their UBRs out of production because they=E2=80=99re upgrading their =
cable plant to the CBR platform.
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> Then the Arris C4, if you have deep pockets, is a modern version of =
the BSR:
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> http://www.arris.com/products/c4-cmts/
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> > On Feb 2, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> >
> > Well, maybe NANOG's not a bad place for this post then! I would like =
to know more about the data-only side of CMTS systems, and who the main =
vendors are.
> >
> > We have MDU properties where there is either old inside CAT3 phone =
wire, or coaxial cable. We have looked and are very familiar with the =
multiple technologies that work over phone lines namely VDSL2 and =
G.FAST. However, using the coaxial cable seems to be a much better =
solution than using the phone wires.
> >
> > So I am looking for compacts, low cost CMTS systems. Based on the =
specs, I am looking for something at least DOCSIS 3.0 capable, with at =
least 16X4 output. Something with the ability to upgrade to software =
upgrade to DOCSIS 3.1 would be nice, but I doubt that would be a low =
cost solution.
> >
> > Whats out there for small operators that don't want a large chassis =
based system to feed an entire town with.
> >
> > So far I have found the =
http://picodigital.com/product-details.php?ID=3DminiCMTS200a which seems =
to retail for under $5000.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Daniel Corbe =
<dcorbe@hammerfiber.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 2, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> > >
> > > Are there any mailing lists out there dedicated for cable/MSO type
> > > operators?
> > >
> >
> > I'm curious about this too.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99m not a cable operator (in that I haven=E2=80=99t =
successfully registered for a cable franchise yet) but I do operate a =
docsis network and I=E2=80=99ve successfully negotiated the treacherous =
waters of obtaining and providing content to my users.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99m still a bit green behind the ears but I could probably =
offer some measure of assistance if you have a specific question.
> >
> > -Daniel
> >
> >
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