[184428] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: AW: /27 the new /24
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mike Hammett)
Fri Oct 2 22:54:32 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:53:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
In-Reply-To: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
A better truth may be that I have no idea about bureaucracies... which I'll=
happily admit to.=20
-----=20
Mike Hammett=20
Intelligent Computing Solutions=20
http://www.ics-il.com=20
Midwest Internet Exchange=20
http://www.midwest-ix.com=20
----- Original Message -----
From: "J=C3=BCrgen Jaritsch" <jj@anexia.at>=20
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=20
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM=20
Subject: AW: /27 the new /24=20
> Stop using old shit.=20
Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works a=
nd you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks.=20
J=C3=BCrgen Jaritsch=20
Head of Network & Infrastructure=20
ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH=20
Telefon: +43-5-0556-300=20
Telefax: +43-5-0556-500=20
E-Mail: JJaritsch@anexia-it.com=20
Web: http://www.anexia-it.com=20
Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra=C3=9Fe 140, 9020 Klagenfur=
t=20
Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Alexander Windbichler=20
Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U632166=
01=20
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----=20
Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett=20
Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38=20
An: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>=20
Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24=20
Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small busine=
ss with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big busines=
s with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big rout=
er.=20
I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need t=
o throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with th=
e times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more p=
ower, space, heat, etc. efficient.=20
I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco rou=
ters. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so the=
y weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be=
worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup =
consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... a=
nd is worse.=20
Stop using old shit.=20
-----=20
Mike Hammett=20
Intelligent Computing Solutions=20
http://www.ics-il.com=20
Midwest Internet Exchange=20
http://www.midwest-ix.com=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "William Herrin" <bill@herrin.us>=20
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>=20
Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=20
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM=20
Subject: Re: /27 the new /24=20
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:=20
> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router=20
> I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If=20
> someone's network can't match that today, should I really have=20
> any pity for them?=20
Hi Mike,=20
The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more=20
precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap)=20
end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a=20
general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB).=20
They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large=20
routing tables at the same time.=20
For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out=20
https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see=20
folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content=20
Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and=20
SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an=20
O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural=20
differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your=20
$100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.=20
Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100=20
router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers.=20
That makes it expensive.=20
Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the=20
systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement:=20
http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html=20
Regards,=20
Bill Herrin=20
--=20
William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us=20
Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>=20
