[182113] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Fri Jul 10 12:08:10 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <op.x1jnb7mmtfhldh@rbeam.xactional.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 09:05:53 -0700
To: Ricky Beam <jfbeam@gmail.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
> On Jul 9, 2015, at 23:08 , Ricky Beam <jfbeam@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2015 21:15:57 -0400, Karl Auer <kauer@biplane.com.au> =
wrote:
>> Actually I was mentioning thousands.
>=20
> Dozens, millions, whatever. Pick something and get on with it already.
I don=E2=80=99t know anyone that=E2=80=99s going to get upset with you =
if you deploy /48s to end sites.
Sure, there are lots of /56 advocates out there, but none of them are =
going to cause grief if you use /48 instead.
ALL of the RIRs accept /48 as an end-site assignment without question.
We picked /48 a long time ago. I=E2=80=99m not sure why longer prefixes =
keep coming up. I think it=E2=80=99s IPv4-think on the
part of people who can=E2=80=99t get their heads out of the scarcity =
mentality.
>> What you personally don't foresee is pretty much irrelevant to what =
will
>> actually happen...
>=20
> And planning for a future that doesn't happen because you're too =
caught up in *planning* that future is irrelevant, too.
I=E2=80=99m fully dual-stacked and have a /48 in my house. Do you?
I=E2=80=99ve been implementing IPv6 in various networks for years. =
I=E2=80=99ve probably dual-stacked more than 100 networks by now.
How many have you done?
I don=E2=80=99t think any of us advocating /48s are sitting here =
planning without implementing.
>> Like pretty much the entire current generation of net techs, your
>> imagination is limited by your past. But there are kids in school =
right
>> now who do not suffer from the same limitations - and they will build
>> wonders.
>=20
> And in ~15 years when they have a jobs, they can change what we built. =
(assuming ever let the paint dry long enough to use it.)
I tend to think of the internet more like powder-coating. It goes on dry =
and often comes out half-baked.
>> PS: People keep dissing "home users" saying how they are incapable of
>> understanding stuff and installing all these complex networks. Twenty
>> years ago getting online at home took lots of know-how; getting more
>> than one device online in the home took even more. Now you can just =
buy
>> a $50 bit of kit, plug it in and your desktops, laptops, smartphones,
>> tablets, televisions, digital radios and wireless sound systems just
>> work. With main and guest networks, multiple wifi protocols, and in =
many
>> cases basic IPv6 as well. There is no reason to think that the
>> complexity of future networks will not be equally well packaged for =
the
>> home.
>=20
> 20 years ago was 1995. It took "some" know how (how to run setup.exe =
on the floppy you ISP sent you.) Windows 95 made it much easier by =
having that software in the default OS. Building a network took a bit =
longer to (a) be wanted/needed and (b) be available and affordable in =
the home. (few people had more than one computer to network in the first =
place. Today, you have three of them on your person at any given =
moment.)
>=20
> Despite the proliferation of the internet and network tech, the =
average person today knows even less than two decades ago. Because =
everything "just works". IPv6 will never get there until it, too, "just =
works". We're still a long way off in the home -- both because providers =
aren't doing it, and because the CPE tech is lagging. Mobile by =
contrast, due to necessity and speed of tech turnover, is there already; =
you have to intentionally check to know you're using IPv6.
We can agree to disagree=E2=80=A6 I made good money back then helping =
home users get their home networks set up because it was too hard for =
them to do themselves as a side gig.
IPv6 is =E2=80=9Cjust working=E2=80=9D for a millions of home users that =
wouldn=E2=80=99t know it if they (or someone else) didn=E2=80=99t =
deliberately check. That=E2=80=99s reality today.
The number is growing fairly quickly as well.
Owen
