[178612] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Clayton Zekelman)
Sun Mar 1 08:08:45 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Clayton Zekelman <clayton@mnsi.net>
In-Reply-To: <21746.34640.36061.415267@world.std.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 08:08:27 -0500
To: Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Yes, so when cable modems were introduced to the network, they had to be des=
igned to work on the EXISTING infrastructure which was designed to deliver c=
able TV. It's not some conspiracy to differentiate higher priced business se=
rvices - it was a fact of RF technology and the architecture of the network t=
hey were overlaying this "new" service on top of.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 28, 2015, at 10:28 PM, Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On February 28, 2015 at 18:14 clayton@mnsi.net (Clayton Zekelman) wrote:
>> You do of course realize that the asymmetry in CATV forward path/return p=
ath existed LONG before residential Internet access over cable networks exit=
ed? =20
>=20
> You mean back when it was all analog and DOCSIS didn't exist?
>=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 5:38 PM, Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Can we stop the disingenuity?
>>>=20
>>> Asymmetric service was introduced to discourage home users from
>>> deploying "commercial" services. As were bandwidth caps.
>>>=20
>>> One can argue all sorts of other "benefits" of this but when this
>>> started that was the problem on the table: How do we forcibly
>>> distinguish commercial (i.e., more expensive) from non-commercial
>>> usage?
>>>=20
>>> Answer: Give them a lot less upload than download bandwidth.
>>>=20
>>> Originally these asymmetric, typically DSL, links were hundreds of
>>> kbits upstream, not a lot more than a dial-up line.
>>>=20
>>> That and NAT thereby making it difficult -- not impossible, the savvy
>>> were in the noise -- to map domain names to permanent IP addresses.
>>>=20
>>> That's all this was about.
>>>=20
>>> It's not about "that's all they need", "that's all they want", etc.
>>>=20
>>> Now that bandwidth is growing rapidly and asymmetric is often
>>> 10/50mbps or 20/100 it almost seems nonsensical in that regard, entire
>>> medium-sized ISPs ran on less than 10mbps symmetric not long ago. But
>>> it still imposes an upper bound of sorts, along with addressing
>>> limitations and bandwidth caps.
>>>=20
>>> That's all this is about.
>>>=20
>>> The telcos for many decades distinguished "business" voice service
>>> from "residential" service, even for just one phone line, though they
>>> mostly just winged it and if they declared you were defrauding them by
>>> using a residential line for a business they might shut you off and/or
>>> back bill you. Residential was quite a bit cheaper, most importantly
>>> local "unlimited" (unmetered) talk was only available on residential
>>> lines. Business lines were even coded 1MB (one m b) service, one
>>> metered business (line).
>>>=20
>>> The history is clear and they've just reinvented the model for
>>> internet but proactively enforced by technology rather than studying
>>> your usage patterns or whatever they used to do, scan for business ads
>>> using "residential" numbers, beyond bandwidth usage analysis.
>>>=20
>>> And the CATV companies are trying to reinvent CATV pricing for
>>> internet, turn Netflix (e.g.) into an analogue of HBO and other
>>> premium CATV services.
>>>=20
>>> What's so difficult to understand here?
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> -Barry Shein
>>>=20
>>> The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorl=
d.com
>>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, C=
anada
>>> Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo=
*
>=20
> --=20
> -Barry Shein
>=20
> The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.=
com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Can=
ada
> Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
