[178421] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mel Beckman)
Fri Feb 27 15:05:55 2015
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From: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org>
To: "McElearney, Kevin" <Kevin_McElearney@cable.comcast.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 19:57:20 +0000
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Kevin,
It is NOT the ISP's responsibility to provide you with X Mbps if that wa=
s advertised as "UP TO x Mbps" (which is exactly how every broadband provid=
er advertises its service -- check your contract). We're not talking about =
the Internet's capacity here. We're talking about the physical limits of an=
ISPs own uplink connection to the Internet. That costs much more than the =
income from the number of users it takes to saturate the uplink.=20
Any discussion of Internet backbone limitations, while these limitations do=
in fact exist, has nothing to do with ISP oversubscription, which some are=
claiming is deceitful. It's not deceitful, it's essential.
See my earlier "iron man" example to Bill.
-mel
On Feb 27, 2015, at 11:49 AM, "McElearney, Kevin" <Kevin_McElearney@cable.c=
omcast.com>
wrote:
> [Sorry for top-posting]
>=20
> I actually think you are both right and partially wrong. It IS the ISPs
> responsibility to provide you with the broadband that was advertised and
> you paid for. This is also measured today by the FCC through Measuring
> Broadband America.=20
> http://data.fcc.gov/download/measuring-broadband-america/2014/2014-Fixed-=
Me
> asuring-Broadband-America-Report.pdf
>=20
> That said, your ISP is NOT =93the Internet=94 and can=92t guarantee =93ac=
cess the
> Internet sites of my choice at X megabits per second." While ISPs do tak=
e
> the phone call for all Internet problems (sometimes not very well), they
> certainly don=92t control all levels of the QoE. ASPs may have server/si=
te
> issues internally, CDNs may purposely throttle downloads (content owners
> contract commits), not all transit ISPs are created equal, TCP distance
> limitations, etc.
>=20
> What would be interesting is if all these rules/principals and
> transparency requirements were to be applied to all involved in the
> consumer QoE.
>=20
> - Kevin
>=20
> On 2/27/15, 1:34 PM, "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>=20
>> Bill,
>>=20
>> This is not feasible. ISPs work by oversubscription, so it's never
>> possible for all (or even 10% of all) customers to simultaneously demand
>> their full bandwidth. If ISPs had to reserve the full bandwidth sold to
>> each customer in order to "do everything reasonably within your power to
>> make sure I can access the Internet sites of my choice at X megabits per
>> second", then broadband connections would cost thousands of dollars per
>> month.
>>=20
>> Anyone who doesn't understand this fundamental fact of Internet
>> distribution will be unable to engage in reasonable discussion about ISP
>> practices.
>>=20
>> On Feb 27, 2015, at 9:56 AM, William Herrin
>> <bill@herrin.us<mailto:bill@herrin.us>>
>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Deceit is Bad Behavior. If you sell me an X megabit per second
>> Internet access service, you should do everything reasonably within
>> your power to make sure I can access the Internet sites of my choice
>> at X megabits per second.
>>=20
>=20
