[177895] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kenneth McRae)
Sat Feb 7 16:26:08 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
To: Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
From: Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 21:24:18 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Point taken on the specs.. =C2=A0Still doesn't excuse poor customer servic=
e and tech support. =C2=A0I never expect to be told that no refund will be=
issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. =C2=A0 A request for RMA =
because something is not working as expected should not have to be escalat=
ed to the President of the company.=C2=A0=0A=0AOther than that I am sure F=
iberStore is a great company :-)=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal=
Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMy point is......=0A=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs.=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what =
determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect).=0A=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mfg.=
Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can make mistak=
es...=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do th=
e design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their=
work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to =C2=A0F***up too.=0A=0AWhile it =
is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a=
bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg produc=
ts are bad is a whole different issue.=0A=0AI deal with FiberStore, my exp=
erience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not =
meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked.=0A=0ARegards.=C2=A0=0A=
=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, =
FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 =
or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.m=
crae@me.com>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodri=
go 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: =
Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0A=
That's true up to a point. =C2=A0Specs are only as good as the entity prov=
iding the data. =C2=A0I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MA=
JOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advert=
ised specs. =C2=A0When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a bui=
ld, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else.=
=C2=A0If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is=
exactly what I expect.=0A=0AThat is pretty basic.=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, a=
t 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMore powe=
r to you ....=C2=A0=0A=0AI always get a chuckle out of statements such as =
... "Compared FiberStore to another Vendor"... =C2=A0=0A=0AIt was pointed =
out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is better than a=
Ford"....=0ASomeone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? =C2=A0the Chevette ? =
or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?=0A=0A=0AEvery mfg=
. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved...=
=0A=0AOne has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products=
at different times don't have the same specs !=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=
=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: =
305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Suppor=
t@Snappytelecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0AT=
o: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <ro=
drigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, Februa=
ry 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0AThat's why I e=
ngage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candi=
date will support the use case. =C2=A0I have now performed an A/B comparis=
on and the FiberStore gear is inferior. =C2=A0Excessive loss on the mux an=
d optics.=C2=A0=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@s=
nappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AIf you pay close attention to the Spec Sheet=
s, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calcula=
tion for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will w=
ork unless the devices do not meet specified specs.=0A=0AIf you don't do y=
our homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatev=
er, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to b=
e surprised in a bad way.=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & T=
elecom=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodri=
go@1telecom.com.br>=0ATo: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ACc: "NA=
NOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM=0ASub=
ject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0AWhat others vendors do you using? Here in Br=
azil only PADTEC have this=0Apassive solution... Some days ago Digitel con=
tact me to show your multiplex=0Asolution... Is a active solution...=0AWe =
import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G=0A=
sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...=0AEnviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0AGrupo Con=
nectoway=0A> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me=
.com> escreveu:=0A>=0A> Hi Enviado,=0A>=0A> I cannot recommend FiberStore =
as I had a bad experience with them. I=0A> needed to cover only 3km from A=
to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw=0A> a loss of over 5db with thei=
r passive mux inserted into the path which=0A> created a total loss of ove=
r -20db which is outside of the tolerances for=0A> our equipment with 10km=
SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss=0A> mux corrected our issu=
e. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you=0A> may be able to tolera=
te a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I also=0A> notice that their C=
DWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when=0A> compared to ot=
her vendors.=0A>=0A> Thanks=0A>=0A> Kenneth=0A>=0A>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 1=
0:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0A>> wrote:=0A>>=0A>=0A=
>> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when=
=0A>> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?=0A>> I =
buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test=0A>> =
about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... (=0A=
>> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access wi=
th=0A>> ssh and pinging tests...=0A>> What kind os issue do you have? For =
distances less than 60km is this=0A>> solution good?=0A>> Thanks!!!=0A>>=0A=
>> Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0A>> Grupo Connectoway=0A>>=0A>>> Em 07/02=
/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu:=0A>>>=
Mike,=0A>>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with =
OSI Hardware=0A>>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointmen=
t (excessive=0A>>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund w=
ithout=0A>>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from=
the OSI=0A>>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 chan=
nels).=0A>>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn <mmg@transtel=
co.net> wrote:=0A>>> Hi Mike=0A>>> I can recommend a couple of vendors tha=
t provide cost effective=0A>>> solutions.=0A>>> Ekinops & Packetlight.=0A>=
>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:=0A=
>>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500)=0A=
>>> muxes=0A>>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However,=
they don't=0A>>> work=0A>>> so well when you don't control the optics use=
d on both sides (therefore=0A>>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously=
only do a handful of channels=0A>>> and=0A>>> have a distance limitation.=
=0A>>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?=0A>>=
> -----=0A>>> Mike Hammett=0A>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions=0A>>> htt=
p://www.ics-il.com=0A>>> --=0A>>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineerin=
g | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX:=0A>>> *+52=0A>>> 656-257-1109*=0A>>> CONFI=
DENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use=0A>>> o=
f the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain=0A>>> =
information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure=0A=
>>> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this=0A=
>>> information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distributio=
n,=0A>>> or=0A>>> copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.=0A>=
>> AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicaci=C3=B3n es s=C3=B3lo para el =
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