[177893] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Faisal Imtiaz)
Sat Feb 7 16:17:19 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 21:17:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
To: Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
In-Reply-To: <260a6f21-a629-4210-88e1-459c842b3f0a@me.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
My point is......=20
... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs.=20
If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the prod=
uct's mfg shortcoming (defect).=20
Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can make mis=
takes...=20
Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to =
explain it, and this way I double check their work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers a=
re known to F***up too.=20
While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and =
having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg=
products are bad is a whole different issue.=20
I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff =
purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions=
asked.=20
Regards.=20
Faisal Imtiaz=20
Snappy Internet & Telecom=20
7266 SW 48 Street=20
Miami, FL 33155=20
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232=20
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=20
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.or=
g>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing=
the
> data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a
> major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. Wh=
en
> you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know t=
he
> true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certa=
in
> distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect.
> That is pretty basic.
> On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wr=
ote:
> > More power to you ....
>=20
> > I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared FiberSto=
re
> > to
> > another Vendor"...
>=20
> > It was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chev=
y is
> > better than a Ford"....
>=20
> > Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette =
?
> > and
> > Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?
>=20
> > Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting
> > improved...
>=20
> > One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at
> > different times don't have the same specs !
>=20
> > :)
>=20
> > Faisal Imtiaz
>=20
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
>=20
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
>=20
> > Miami, FL 33155
>=20
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>=20
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net
>=20
> > ----- Original Message -----
>=20
> > > From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> >=20
>=20
> > > To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
> >=20
>=20
> > > Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG"
> > > <nanog@nanog.org>
> >=20
>=20
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM
> >=20
>=20
> > > Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> >=20
>=20
> > > That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make su=
re
> > > the
> > > chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A=
/B
> > > comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the=
mux
> > > and optics.
> >=20
>=20
> > > On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net=
>
> > > wrote:
> >=20
>=20
> > > > If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output,
> > > > insertion
> > > > loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, the=
n
> > > > using
> > > > anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices d=
o
> > > > not
> > > > meet specified specs.
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just b=
uy
> > > > stuff
> > > > based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are
> > > > very
> > > > very likely to be surprised in a bad way.
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > :)
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > From: "Rodrigo 1telecom" < rodrigo@1telecom.com.br >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > To: "Kenneth McRae" < kenneth.mcrae@me.com >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > Cc: "NANOG" < nanog@nanog.org >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have
> > > > > this
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your
> > > > > multiplex
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > solution... Is a active solution...
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors t=
o
> > > > > buy
> > > > > 10G
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > Grupo Connectoway
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > > Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae < kenneth.mcrae@me.=
com >
> > > > > > escreveu:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > > Hi Enviado,
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > > I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with th=
em.
> > > > > > I
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > > needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km opti=
cs,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > saw
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > > a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the pat=
h
> > > > > > which
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > > created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the
> > > > > > tolerances
> > > > > > for
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > > our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low inserti=
on
> > > > > > loss
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > > mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km opt=
ic,
> > > > > > you
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > > may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km=
. I
> > > > > > also
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > > notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power
> > > > > > output
> > > > > > when
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > > compared to other vendors.
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > > Thanks
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > > Kenneth
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >> On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <
> > > > > >> rodrigo@1telecom.com.br
> > > > > >> >
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >
> > > >=20
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> > > > > >> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to si=
de B
> > > > > >> when
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >> I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only mak=
e a
> > > > > >> test
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for
> > > > > >> 80km...
> > > > > >> (
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch
> > > > > >> access
> > > > > >> with
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> ssh and pinging tests...
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km i=
s
> > > > > >> this
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> solution good?
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >> Thanks!!!
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >> Grupo Connectoway
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Kenneth McRae < kenneth.mcrae@m=
e.com >
> > > > > >>> escreveu:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> Mike,
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with =
OSI
> > > > > >>> Hardware
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment
> > > > > >>> (excessive
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from=
the
> > > > > >>> OSI
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channe=
ls).
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn < mmg@transte=
lco.net >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> Hi Mike
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effecti=
ve
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> solutions.
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> Ekinops & Packetlight.
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett < nanog@ics-il.ne=
t >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less tha=
n
> > > > > >>> $500)
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> muxes
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, th=
ey
> > > > > >>> don't
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >>> work
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >>> so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides
> > > > > >>> (therefore
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful o=
f
> > > > > >>> channels
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> and
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >>> have a distance limitation.
> > > >=20
> > >=20
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> > > > > >>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg=
?
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> -----
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
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> > > > > >>> Mike Hammett
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> http://www.ics-il.com
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> --
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2=
232*
> > > > > >>> |
> > > > > >>> MX:
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> *+52
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> 656-257-1109*
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > > > > >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only f=
or
> > > > > >>> the
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> > > >=20
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> > > >=20
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> > > >=20
> > >=20
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