[174956] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Marriott wifi blocking
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Hugo Slabbert)
Mon Oct 6 15:01:16 2014
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 12:01:06 -0700
From: Hugo Slabbert <hugo@slabnet.com>
To: Clay Fiske <clay@bloomcounty.org>
In-Reply-To: <07A070D3-C36A-48F2-A40D-7F57E28341BA@bloomcounty.org>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
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I live in a condo. I have a WLAN set up. More people move in and start=20
setting up WLANs and the collective noise of those WLANs starts to=20
impact the performance of my WLAN. Just because I was there first=20
doesn't mean I have any right to start de-authing the newcomers. I=20
don't see how Marriott has any additional rights to de-auth personal=20
hotspots than I do to de-auth my neighbours.
On Mon 2014-Oct-06 11:53:40 -0700, Clay Fiske <clay@bloomcounty.org>=20
wrote:
>
>On Oct 6, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, in multiple situations, the FCC has stated that you are respon=
sible
>> when deploying a new unlicensed transmitter to insure that it is deploye=
d in
>> such a way that it will not cause harmful interference to existing opera=
tions.
>
>I recognize that you were making this statement in the context of collidin=
g SSIDs, but to me this could be an interesting point in another way.
>
>Suppose from Marriott=E2=80=99s perspective that your personal wifi networ=
k is interfering with the throughput of their existing network. After all, =
if you fire up your personal AP, with a non-colliding SSID, and start downl=
oading multi-GB files, that=E2=80=99s bound to impact[1] anything else usin=
g that channel. While there are at least a few non-overlapping channels on =
most wifi networks, if Marriott(=E2=80=99s third party network operators) h=
ad any sense they likely would have situated their APs and channels to prov=
ide the most range with the least amount of frequency overlap. Now here you=
r personal AP on one of those channels consuming enough of its bandwidth to=
significantly degrade performance for anyone else, and they may not have a=
ccess to (or usable signal strength or bandwidth on) another channel from t=
heir hotel room.
>
>During a big convention for example, the hotel network is probably at its =
busiest while the number of guests using personal APs is likely also at its=
peak. This may be a stickier case, as no one user is causing the issue but=
one could make the case that, in aggregate, they are very much interfering=
with existing operations.
>
>There are probably a couple of different angles to consider, but I=E2=80=
=99m thinking in terms of the =E2=80=9Cfirst come, first served=E2=80=9D co=
ncept. At what point is the extra bandwidth consumed by your personal wifi =
network considered to be harmfully interfering with an existing network?
>
>FWIW I am not defending Marriott=E2=80=99s actions, nor even positing that=
this was the reason for them. I just want to gain understanding.
>
>-c
>
>[1] This is of course assuming you=E2=80=99re getting decent throughput fr=
om your 3G/4G provider=E2=80=99s network. But even though it=E2=80=99s almo=
st certainly slower than wifi it=E2=80=99s probably generating enough packe=
ts in a collision-based medium to impact other flows.
>
--=20
Hugo
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