[171927] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Observations of an Internet Middleman (Level3)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Laszlo Hanyecz)
Fri May 16 14:38:49 2014
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Laszlo Hanyecz <laszlo@heliacal.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAMrdfRzVWoa=Hx176JbomgYXxcEYyT_HDyZeBJ4kV4cOes1kTg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 18:38:39 +0000
To: Scott Helms <khelms@zcorum.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
I'd just like to point out that a lot of people are in fact using their =
upstream capability, and the operators always throw a fit and try to cut =
off specific applications to force it back into the idle state. For =
example P2P things like torrents and most recently the open NTP and DNS =
servers. How about SMTP? Not sure about you guys but my local =
broadband ISP has cut me off and told me that my 'unlimited internet' is =
in fact limited. The reality is that those people who are not using it =
(99.8%?) are just being ripped off - paying for something they were told =
they need, thinking that it's there when they want it, then getting cut =
off when they actually try to use it.
It's not like whining about it here will change anything, but the prices =
are severely distorted. Triple play packages are designed to force =
people to pay for stuff they don't need or want - distorting the price =
of a service hoping to recover it elsewhere, then if the gamble doesn't =
pan out, the customer loses again. The whole model is based on people =
buying stuff that they won't actually come to collect, so then you can =
sell it an infinite number of times. The people who do try to collect =
what was sold to them literally end up getting called names and cut off =
- terms like "excessive bandwidth user" and "network abuser" are used to =
describe paying customers. With regard to the peering disputes, it's =
hardly surprising that their business partners are treated with the same =
attitude as their customers. Besides, if you cut off the customers and =
peers who are causing that saturation, then the existing peering links =
can support an infinite number of idle subscribers. The next phase is =
usage-based-billing which is kind of like having to pay a fine for using =
it, so they can artificially push the price point lower and hopefully =
get some more idle customers. That will help get the demand down and =
keep the infrastructure nice and idle. When you're paying for every cat =
video maybe you realize you can live without it instead.
Everyone has been trained so well, they don't even flinch anymore when =
they hear about "over subscription", and they apologize for the people =
who are doing it to them. The restaurant analogy is incorrect - you can =
go to the restaurant next door if a place is busy, thus they have =
pressure to increase their capacity if they want to sell more meals. =
With broadband you can't go anywhere else, (for most people) there's =
only one restaurant, and there's a week long waiting list. If you don't =
like it, you're probably an abuser or excessive eater anyway.
-Laszlo
On May 16, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Scott Helms <khelms@zcorum.com> wrote:
> Michael,
>=20
> No, its not too much to ask and any end user who has that kind of
> requirement can order a business service to get symmetrical service =
but the
> reality is that symmetrical service costs more and the vast majority =
of
> customers don't use the upstream capacity they have today. I have =
personal
> insight into about half a million devices and the percentage of people =
who
> bump up against their upstream rate is less than 0.2%. I have the =
ability
> to get data on another 10 million and the last time I checked their =
rates
> were similar.
>=20
> This kind of question has been asked of operators since long before =
cable
> companies could offer internet service. What happens if everyone in =
an
> area use their telephone (cellular or land line) at the same time? A =
fast
> busy or recorded "All circuits are busy message." Over subscription =
is a
> fact of economics in virtually everything we do. By this logic =
restaurants
> should be massively over built so that there is never a waiting line,
> highways should always be a speed limit ride, and all of these things =
would
> cost much more money than they do today.
>=20
>=20
> Scott Helms
> Vice President of Technology
> ZCorum
> (678) 507-5000
> --------------------------------
> http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
> --------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Scott Helms wrote:
>>=20
>>> Mark,
>>>=20
>>> Bandwidth use trends are actually increasingly asymmetical because =
of the
>>> popularity of OTT video.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Until my other half decides to upload a video.
>>=20
>> Is it too much to ask for a bucket of bits that I can use in =
whichever
>> direction happens
>> to be needed at the moment?
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
