[165486] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Naslund, Steve)
Fri Sep 6 10:28:04 2013
From: "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com>
To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:27:32 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAMzo+1aLtYstAyQRTwQKj0JmYFVTsP-ua4B3=MMY8sj=1fAuyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
The error in this whole conversation is that you cannot "take it back" as a=
n engineer. You do not own it. You are like an architect or carpenter and=
are no more responsible for how it is used than the architect is responsib=
le that the building he designed is being used as a crack house. Do Ford e=
ngineers have a "social contract" to ensure that I do not run over squirrel=
s with my Explorer, will they "take it back" if I do so? The whole "social=
contract" argument is ridiculous. You have a contract (or most likely an =
"at will" agreement") with your employer to build what they want and operat=
e it in the way that they want you to. If it is against your ethics to do =
so, quit. The companies that own the network have a fiduciary responsibili=
ty to their investors and a responsibility to serve their customers. If an=
yone is really that bent out of shape by the NSA tactics (and I am not so s=
ure they are given the lack of political backlash) here is what you can do.
In the United States there are two main centers of power that can affect th=
ese policies, the consumer and the voter.
1. We vote in a new executive branch every four years. They control and a=
ppoint the NSA director. Vote them out if you don't like how they run thin=
gs. Do you think a President wants to maintain power? Of course they do a=
nd they will change a policy that will get them tossed out (if enough peopl=
e actually care).
2. The Congress passes the laws that govern telecom and intelligence gathe=
ring. They also have the power to impeach and/or prosecute the executive b=
ranch for misdeeds. They will pass any law or do whatever it takes to keep=
themselves in power. Again this requires a lot of public pressure.
3. The companies that are consenting to monitoring (legal or illegal) are =
stuck between two powers. The federal government's power to regulate them =
and the investors / consumers they serve. Apparently they are more scared =
of the government even though the consumer can put them out of business ove=
rnight by simply not using their product any more. If everyone cancelled t=
heir gmail accounts, stopped using Google search, and stopped paying for Go=
ogle placement and ads, their stock would go to zero nearly overnight. Aga=
in, no one seems to care about the issue enough to do this because I have s=
een no appreciable backlash against these companies.
If a social contract exists at all in the United States, it would be to hol=
d your government and the companies you do business with to your ethical st=
andards. Another things to remember is that the NSA engineers were probabl=
y acting under their "social contract" to defend the United States from wha=
tever enemies they are trying to monitor and also felt they were doing the =
"right thing". The problem with "social contracts" is that they are relati=
ve.
As far as other countries are concerned, you can affect their policies as w=
ell. US carriers are peered with and provide transit to Chinese companies.=
If the whole world is that outraged with what they do, they just need to =
pressure the companies they do business with not to do business with China.
Steven Naslund
Chicago IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Amodio [mailto:jmamodio@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:51 AM
To: NANOG
Subject: Re: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take i=
t back
> > The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it back
> > >
> >
> > Who is we ?
>
> If you bothered to read the 1st paragraph you would know.
>
I read all of it, the original article and other references to it.
IMHO, there is no amount of engineering that can fix stupid people doing st=
upid things on both sides of the stupid lines.
By trying to fix what is perceived an engineering issue (seems that China d=
oing the same or worse for many years wasn't an engineering problem) the on=
ly result you will obtain is a budget increase on the counter-engineering e=
fforts, that may represent a big chunk of money that can be used in more ef=
fective ways where it is really needed.
My .02
-J
