[164659] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: ARIN WHOIS for leads
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Patrick W. Gilmore)
Fri Jul 26 13:04:26 2013
From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net>
In-Reply-To: <5FE1FB6D43B8A647BBC821840C1AEA8B018794@ocsbs.ocosa.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 13:04:08 -0400
To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
> What happen to the days when you could simply tell someone not
> interested, don't call again and you wouldn't hear from them ever
> again?????
I don't know, but that is part of the reason why you can't ignore these =
people or buy from them.
Ever heard of the "one bite at the apple" idea? Marketers think they =
should each be able to ask you just once to buy something from them. =
Ignoring the fact they ask more than once, in the US alone, there are 23 =
million small businesses =
<http://www.sba.gov/content/small-business-trends>.
How many calls / emails do you want to get if even 10% of them decide =
they get _one_ chance to ask you to buy something?
The reason this is not a problem for snail mail is there has to be a =
serious return to cover the cost of printing, postage, etc. What's the =
cost of sending 23 million emails? Two cents?
> Or the days when everything wasn't treated as spam????
Everything is not.
I admit that "the other side" frequently goes in-frickin'-sane and calls =
even non-scraped, individually addressed mail to a single person "spam". =
We shouldn't listen to them any more than we should listen to the =
marketer calling back the four time in a week to sell my father life =
insurance - after he had passed away.
Suggestion: Put tagged addresses and, if possible, phone numbers in your =
ARIN whois and other public records. When someone emails that address or =
calls that number, make sure you put them on a "never buy from" list, =
and they know it. Write them a physical (form) letter, explaining why, =
and make it public (web page, blog, whatever. If even a small percentage =
of people did this, many companies would change their practices. =
_Especially_ Internet companies.
--=20
TTFN,
patrick
On Jul 26, 2013, at 11:59 , "Otis L. Surratt, Jr." <otis@ocosa.com> =
wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patrick@ianai.net]=20
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:47 AM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: ARIN WHOIS for leads
>=20
> On Jul 25, 2013, at 19:29 , "Otis L. Surratt, Jr." <otis@ocosa.com>
> wrote:
>> From: Warren Bailey [mailto:wbailey@satelliteintelligencegroup.com]
>=20
>>> Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of maintaining the whois?
>>=20
>> Yep!
>>=20
>>> We registered a few domains and get the same thing, I think it's
>> something that people are going to have to live with. :/
>>=20
>> I agree. We just politely tell them we are not interested and move on=20=
>> about our day. Some cold callers we have taken up on offers. It just=20=
>> depends who calls and whether or not we are looking for new service.
>> WHOIS Privacy is nice for the domains and we use for some of our=20
>> domains but not all. We just hate when customers get those scam=20
>> notices and call us or open tickets about it.
>=20
>>> The fact you take some cold callers "up on offers" means they will
> continue to call.
>=20
>>> Please do not reward people who scrape whois or the NANOG-l archive.
> If it is not profitable to call people, they will stop.
>=20
>>> Put another way: You are making life worse for all of us.
>=20
>>> --
>>> TTFN,
>>> patrick
>=20
> I'm not sure how they receive their data or if they mined from other
> sources. But one can draw some conclusions that they get information
> from some list/database and if you are a new provider or a new =
recipient
> of number resources then yes; that's probably how ARIN WHOIS database.
>=20
> But why don't we take off our hat for one moment that would call this
> spam and simply look at it for what it is. I'm sure others would =
agree.
> Sales teams typically would compile a list of names and phone numbers =
in
> a local community and cold call to see if there is any interest. =
Waiting
> on folks to call you could be weeks, months and years thus adversely
> affecting your business. I'm sure every company has done some cold
> calling before. If you have not then you must have a customer base of
> that is making you the profit you desire and/or you are already a
> billionaire. Thus you the resources for advertisements on
> local/regional/national TV. (Not the only form of advertising BTW)
>=20
> I can name several tier 1 and 2 providers who have reached out to us =
for
> IP transit based on cold calling/ARIN WHOIS.=20
> We've been an ARIN paying member since 2005 and have not had any =
contact
> with any sales folks until last 4 to 5 years maybe.
>=20
> IMHO, you guys should get off this spam kick and simply tell folks you
> are not interested and move on about your day. Life is way too short.
> I'm not sure how cold calling is spamming?=20
>=20
> The folks that received the porn calls.... my response is SMH and I am
> very disgusted. But I definitely can understand your feelings for cold
> calling. Again, life is too short to get all worked up about it. Like =
I
> said before simply tell them not interested and don't call again. We =
do
> and we very seldom find a stubborn sales person that continue with
> repeated calls. For the ones we do we have our phone system =
immediately
> hang up their call based on number. If they someone how gain my or
> others mobile numbers we simply add as contact and send to voicemail.
> After a while they'll get the message. One I threaten him and he never
> called again. I wouldn't recommend but it worked! LOL
>=20
> Everyone's point is we shouldn't have to deal with or provide those
> types of workarounds for unprofessional sales folks that don't
> understand the word "NO". And I whole heartily agree.
>=20
> What happen to the days when you could simply tell someone not
> interested, don't call again and you wouldn't hear from them ever
> again?????
> Or the days when everything wasn't treated as spam????
>=20
> --Otis
>=20
>=20
>=20
