[163349] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Canadian Hosting Providers - how do you handle copyright and
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Thu Jun 6 15:23:21 2013
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <51B0DC7B.3090805@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 12:21:11 -0700
To: Roy <r.engehausen@gmail.com>
Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Jun 6, 2013, at 12:01 , Roy <r.engehausen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/6/2013 11:07 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 2013, at 22:30 , Roy <r.engehausen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 6/5/2013 4:40 PM, Nick Khamis wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/13, Sameer Khosla <skhosla@neutraldata.com> wrote:
>>>>> My personal favorite is the number of notices that we receive as =
DMCA
>>>>> takedown notices, citing the specific laws.
>>>>>=20
>>>> I'm not sure US copyright laws even apply to us here in Canada?
>>>> What countries have no internet laws?
>>>>=20
>>>> N.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>> US laws apply where ever the US says they apply.
>>>=20
>> How do you figure that?
>=20
> A government can say anything it wants to
That's not what you said. You said "US laws apply wherever the US says =
they apply."
I agree that the US government can claim its laws apply wherever they =
wish to clam they apply.
That is a far cry from having them ACTUALLY apply there.
>=20
>>=20
>> The US power to enforce US law is limited to:
>>=20
>> 1. US Citizens (pretty much wherever they are, =
unfortunately)
>> 2. Things that happen within the borders of the united =
states
>> 3. Transactions involving entities within the borders of =
the united states or
>> citizens of the US.
>>=20
>> Beyond that, their power is supposed to be pretty limited.
>=20
> Limited by who?
>=20
Unfortunately, that is the real crux of the matter, now, isn't. However, =
at least on a theoretical level, the government should be limited by the =
powers granted to it by the constitution and by the voters.
> A government can pass any law that it wants to and apply it to anyone. =
It then becomes a question of how it enforces that law and that is =
limited by its ability to project power. See
Yes and no. Depends somewhat on the structure of the government. In the =
case of the united States, Congress can pass any bill that they want, =
however, absent a 2/3rd majority, it then needs signature of the =
president. Beyond that, you still have the issue that the judiciary may =
strike that law down as unconstitutional.
As an example, I'm quite certain that if the US Congress passed a law =
stating that we would tax all Spanish citizens residing on Spanish soil =
$100 per year in perpetuity, that law would have the following problems:
1. The president would probably never sign it.
2. If the president signed it, the supreme court would =
likely demonstrate that it can, in fact, act with great
haste in repealing it.
3. I doubt that any Spanish citizen on Spanish soil would =
have any belief whatsoever that the law actually
applied to them.
4. For any meaningful value of the word "apply", the law =
would not actually apply to said citizens.
Finally when it came to enforcing the law, I doubt that the US tax =
collectors and law enforcement officers would be welcomed into Spain =
with open arms to carry out this application of law. While the US may =
well be capable of taking on the EU militarily, I suspect it would be =
very costly to do so and it certainly wouldn't be well supported by the =
citizenry which I believe would make it difficult for the government to =
sustain said revenue collection campaign.
Owen
