[158577] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brian Johnson)
Tue Dec 4 16:41:17 2012
From: Brian Johnson <bjohnson@drtel.com>
To: Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net>, "Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu"
<Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 21:41:01 +0000
In-Reply-To: <201212041957.qB4JvcYi099017@aurora.sol.net>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
- Brian J.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Greco [mailto:jgreco@ns.sol.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 1:58 PM
> To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
> Cc: Brian Johnson; nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help =
if
>=20
> > > This is a misleading statement. ISP's (Common carriers) do not provid=
e a
> knowingly
>=20
> I'm trying to remember when ISP's became common carriers...
Not all ISPs are. I was referring to those of us who are both Common Carri=
ers and ISPs. The Common Carrier status will override.
>=20
> > > illegal offering, ... TOR exit/entrance nodes provide only the forme=
r.
> >
> > This is also a misleading statement. Explain the difference between
> > a consumer ISP selling you a cable Internet plan knowing that NN% of
> > the traffic will be data with questionable copyright status, and
> > 1 of of 5 or so will be a botted box doing other illegal stuff,
> > and a TOR node providing transit knowing that NN% will be similarly
> > questionable etc etc etc.
>=20
> Great point.
>=20
> The question might also revolve around this issue, restored from the
> previous msg:
>=20
> > > AND they do provide the PHYSICAL infrastructure for
> > > packets to be passed and interconnected to other PHYSICAL networks.
>=20
> Well, an ISP does do that, but so does an end user's network. So if
> I put a Tor node on an ethernet ("PHYSICAL infrastructure") and then
> connect that to an ISP ("other PHYSICAL networks"), that doesn't make
> for a real good way to differentiate between an ISP, a commercial ISP
> customer who gets routed IP networks via BGP, or an end user who has
> an ethernet behind a NAT gateway.
>=20
I was speaking of TOR as a service. The service is not provided inherent of=
the infrastructure to pass packets. It's more similar to a tunneling proto=
col service.
The person hosting the endpoint on their infrastructure would be the servic=
e point and they are the ones acting as protector and as such should take o=
n the responsibility as such. I can feel lawyers rubbing their hands togeth=
er as I type.
- Brian
