[154662] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: job screening question
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Sat Jul 7 00:21:18 2012
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <20120707040658.GC2221@hezmatt.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 21:20:03 -0700
To: Matthew Palmer <mpalmer@hezmatt.org>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Jul 6, 2012, at 9:06 PM, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 12:51:55PM +1200, Ben Aitchison wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 04:18:21PM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 05:01:39PM -0700, Scott Weeks wrote:
>>>> --- jason@thebaughers.com wrote:
>>>> From: Jason Baugher <jason@thebaughers.com>
>>>>=20
>>>> Geez, I'd be happy to find someone with a good attitude, a solid =
work=20
>>>> ethic, and the desire and aptitude to learn. :)
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Yeah, that. But how do you get those folks through the HR=20
>>>> process to you, so you can decipher their skill/work ethic=20
>>>> level? What can the HR person ask to find out if someone=20
>>>> has these qualities? OSPF LSA type questions will not help.
>>>=20
>>> Don't get HR to do that sort of screening. They suck mightily at =
it. I
>>> lack any sort of HR department to get in the way, and I'm glad of it =
-- I
>>> don't see the value in having someone who doesn't know anything =
about the
>>> job get in the way of finding the right person for it. Sure, get =
'em to do
>>> the scutwork of posting job ads, collating resumes, scheduling =
things and
>>> sending the "lolz no!" responses, but actually filtering? Nah, I'll =
do that
>>> bit thanks. If you have to have HR do a filter call, make it =
*really*
>>> simple, like "What does TCP stand for?" -- sadly, you'll still =
probably
>>> filter out half the applicants for a senior position...
>>=20
>> I've noticed a strong correlation between people who don't know what =
acronyms
>> stand for, and competence. People who don't know anything try and =
figure out
>> what the acronym stands for - people who want to understand things =
see it as
>> just a place holder.
>=20
> [...]
>=20
>> Maybe it's more significant to ask what the difference between TCP =
and UDP is.
>=20
> Yes, the difference between TCP and UDP is a much better question to =
ask,
> but having HR assess and act on the answer to the question is a whole =
hell
> of a lot harder. In many ways, *that's* the tough bit of finding a =
good
> screening question. Finding good interview questions *in general* =
isn't all
> that hard. With a good senior candidate my interview questions could =
just
> be bringing up problems I've recently solved or am currently wrestling =
with,
> and having a 30 minute conversation on the problem. I'll get a very =
good
> idea of someone's domain knowledge and problem-solving skills by doing =
that.=20
> But there's no way I can ask HR to do that, because they don't know =
how to
> assess the answer, and as previously demonstrated ("fragmented disks",
> indeed), you can't have HR act as scribe and relay the answer to you,
> because they'll get it wrong, and the interesting bit is the =
*conversation*,
> not the canned single-shot answer.
Not so much, if you ask it in a slightly different way....
"If it isn't important that you get absolutely every packet, but it is =
vital that your
packets be delivered without delay, would you prefer to use TCP or UDP?"
HR can ask that. HR can easily evaluate the answer... TCP: Wrong, UDP: =
Right.
Other interesting selections: Please choose either TCP or UDP (with a =
note
to the potential interviewer that this person may be very creative, very =
smart
or may simply have difficulty following directions)
Spending a little time crafting the questions can pay tremendous =
dividends.
> That's my motivation for asking a question as inane as "What does TCP =
stand
> for?" -- it has an overwhelmingly obvious answer that can be verified =
in a
> second or two by someone who really doesn't know anything about what =
they're
> asking. Give a candidate 10 of those sorts of questions over the =
phone from
> an HR drone, if they score 8-or-better (for instance) they pass and =
you get
> to see their resume. That is, of course, assuming your organisation =
is so
> screwed up that they won't let you at candidates directly (which is =
still my
> preferred option -- leave HR to do the paperwork).
I think there are better questions and ways to ask them that work even =
for HR
than acronym memorization. I say this as one who could both correctly
configure a router _AND_ probably score nearly 100% on the acronym test.
Owen
