[151952] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: SORBS?!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (George Herbert)
Fri Apr 6 11:50:09 2012
In-Reply-To: <4F7F0DA9.2010607@2mbit.com>
From: George Herbert <george.herbert@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 08:49:13 -0700
To: Brielle Bruns <bruns@2mbit.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
This seems like a very 1999 anti-spam attitude.
I have been doing anti-spam a long long time - literally since before Canter=
and Siegel (who I had as customers...) and before jj@cup.portal.com. =20
It's not 1999 anymore. Patrick is not the enemy. Your attitude is worrying. T=
he "I am not responsible for who uses the blacklist or what that means" isn'=
t good enough anymore.
George William Herbert
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2012, at 8:37, Brielle Bruns <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
> On 4/6/12 9:02 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
>> No, they don't. Many DNSBLs use self-service tools. Someone has to
>> write the tool, but the rest is automated. Total cost is power&
>> space, which is frequently donated (I have personally donated some
>> myself to DNSBLs I thought were well run).
>=20
>=20
> Proxy removals and automated additions are self service removals. I don't=
trust automated removal for stuff that we add by hand. Too many variables,=
too much in the way of games...
>=20
> If I were to let the people in spam-sources request removal and handle rem=
oval entirely on their own without one of us reviewing it by hand, there'd b=
e no entries left in my database.
>=20
>>=20
>> Besides, anyone who knowingly causes harm to a third party and claims
>> "it is a cost of doing business" or "mostly people like it" or "our
>> $FOO is targeted and almost always correct, you must be an outlier
>> and that's why it costs you" sound -exactly- like spammers to me.
>=20
>=20
> I was more pointing out to people that you expect someone else, who you've=
got no contractual obligation with, or relationship with, to make time and e=
ffort to handle a request you made.
>=20
> All I hear these days from people is that I have no right to tell them who=
they can have as customers, or how to run their business.
>=20
> Well, the reverse applies as well. I take great offense to people telling=
me how to run my own service, that I provide free at no charge with no obli=
gations.
>=20
> When a provider actually works with me to resolve an issue, I bend over ba=
ckwards to help them. Unfortunately, those kinds of providers are few and f=
ar in between.
>=20
>>=20
>> Spammer who are up-front about it I can deal with. Don't agree with
>> or even like them, but at least we understand each other. Hypocrisy
>> is a different story.
>=20
>=20
> Unfortunately, the apathy of providers, backbones, and network operators i=
n general have created an environment that the almighty buck rules everythin=
g.
>=20
> Yeah, I've had offers for financial support of the AHBL. Turned them down=
every time, even though it would give me a chance to hire actual people to r=
un it. But, then, I'd have someone hanging over my shoulder, pulling stri=
ngs and interfering with my project. My independence goes out the window, a=
nd I can't truly say I have no financial interest in the listings.
>=20
>=20
> So, forgive me if my independence as a non-commercial DNSbl makes me somew=
hat jaded towards people who expect me to prioritize their demands over what=
pays the bills.
>=20
> --=20
> Brielle Bruns
> The Summit Open Source Development Group
> http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
>=20
