[150824] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Programmers with network engineering skills
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Randy)
Mon Mar 5 23:39:34 2012
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 20:38:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Randy <randy_94108@yahoo.com>
To: nanog@nanog.org, ahebert@pubnix.net
In-Reply-To: <4F558222.7010306@pubnix.net>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
if I may chime in -
It is the nature of the corporate-beast which has changed.
When I was starting out in the 80's and even through the early 90's network=
eng and sys eng went hand in hand.
Today it is far more silo'd. NetEng, SysEng are very *distinct* and as a re=
sult different groups today from an operational standpoint.
NetEng deals with tcp/ip(without having a clue as to how apps interact with=
tcp/ip (generally speaking!!) and the opposite applies to SysEng(once agai=
n, generally speaking!)
So, programmers with network engineering skills and vise-versa are a rare-=
commodity to say the least.
I don't think it has anything to do with who is *inherently* interested in =
network eng or sys eng.
In the end:
upto the "$Employer". Know what you are *really* looking for, give them the=
opportunity to expand their horizons and you will have found your-network =
engineer/programmer(you will still find people who are willing to learn - t=
hat is you greatest asset!!)
( I used to script, write; maybe a few lines of C many many years ago....as=
a Sr. Network Engineer. Haven't done that for years because $employer does=
n't want it as a part of my job: and to $employer, I The "Sr. Network Archi=
tect".....<lol>
My 02c's worth wrt this thread.
./Randy
--- On Mon, 3/5/12, Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net> wrote:
> From: Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net>
> Subject: Re: Programmers with network engineering skills
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0About (5
> thru 6)
>=20
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0Hard to keep a straight face in
> front of a customer when, after=20
> assigning him a IP in our 192.172.250.0 range...
>=20
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0... He ask why are we NATing using
> private IP's.
>=20
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0We also had plenty of experience
> with ppl getting confused about=20
> 16, 17.
>=20
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0Your could add L2 Trunking and VRRP
> to your list...=A0 I spent many=20
> hours explaining those to no avail on many occasion.
>=20
> =A0 =A0=A0=A0Sad.
>=20
> -----
> Alain Hebert=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0 ahebert@pubnix.net
> PubNIX Inc.
> 50 boul. St-Charles
> P.O. Box 26770=A0 =A0=A0=A0Beaconsfield,
> Quebec=A0 =A0=A0=A0H9W 6G7
> Tel: 514-990-5911=A0 http://www.pubnix.net=A0 =A0 Fax:
> 514-990-9443
>=20
>=20
> On 03/05/12 21:36, Jimmy Hess wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Justin M. Streiner
> > <streiner@cluebyfour.org>=A0
> wrote:
> >
> >> Admittedly we (the 'network guys') don't always
> make it easy for them. RFCs
> >> get obsoleted by newer RFCs, but the newer RFCs
> might still reference items
> >> from the original RFC, etc.=A0 This can turn
> into developing for something
> > Yes, this is problematic.=A0 =A0 The preferred
> result should be one specification
> > for each protocol,=A0=A0=A0with references
> only for optional extensions.
> >
> >> Other common, but misguided assumptions (even in
> 2012):
> >> 1. You will be using IPv4.=A0 We have no idea
> what this IPv6 nonsense is.
> >> Looks complicated and scary.
> >> 2. 255.255.255.0 is the only valid netmask.
> >> 3. You are using Internet Explorer, and our web
> management interface has
> >> ActiveX controls that require you to do so.
> >> 4. You will be assimilated.=A0 Resistance is
> futile.
> > Add some additional misguided assumptions:
> >
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(5)=A0 Any IP address whose
> first octet is 192.=A0 or=A0 1.=A0 is a private
> IP.
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(6)=A0 Any IP address whose
> first octet is not 192.=A0 is not a valid LAN IP.
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(7)=A0 Any IP address whose
> last octet is .0=A0 is an invalid IP host address
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(8)=A0 Any IP address whose
> last octet is .255 is an invalid IP host address
> >
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(9)=A0 If my DNS service
> supports DNSSEC validation, even with no trust anchors
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =A0=A0=A0configured,=A0 it's cool to go ahead
> and send all queries with
> > the CD and DO bits
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0set to 1
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0and
> perform no validation;=A0 it's even cooler if I only
> > support SHA1 keys and
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0no
> RSA/SHA-256.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (10)=A0 Everyone enters their
> NTP,=A0 and AD servers by IP address, so it
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0is best
> to=A0 have a textbox that only allows IPs,=A0 not
> hostnames.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (11)=A0 Nobody actually uses SRV
> records, so don't bother looking for them.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (12)=A0 Once a DNS lookup has been
> performed, the IP never changes, so
> > it makes sense
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0to keep
> this in memory=A0 until we reboot.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (13)=A0 Nobody has more than 1
> recursive DNS server,=A0 1 NTP server, 1
> > LDAP server,
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A01 Syslog
> server,=A0 and=A0 1 Snmp management station;
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0so a
> single IP entry text box=A0 for each will suffice.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (14)=A0 Nobody has more than 2
> recursive DNS servers, so just allow
> > only 2 to be entered.
> >
> >=A0 =A0 (15) 30 seconds per resolver seems like a
> good timeout for DNS queries, so no
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 need for a
> configurable timeout;=A0 just=A0 try each server
> > sequentially, make the
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 UI hang, the user
> will be happy to wait 5 minutes;=A0 also make
> > the service
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 provided by the
> device temporarily stop --=A0=A0=A0users likes it
> > when their devices
> >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 stop working, to
> remind them to get their first DNS server back up.
> >
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(16)=A0 The default
> gateway's IP address is always 192.168.0.1
> >=A0 =A0=A0=A0(17) The user portion of E-mail
> addresses never contain special
> > characters like=A0 "-" "+"=A0
> "$"=A0=A0=A0"~"=A0 "."=A0 ",", "[",=A0
> "]"
> >
> >
> >
> >> jms
> > --
> > -JH
> >
> >
>=20
>
