[150612] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Programmers with network engineering skills
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Tue Feb 28 13:50:40 2012
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <51C66083768C2949A7EB14910C78B0170184F293@embgsr24.pateam.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:45:07 -0800
To: "Brandt, Ralph" <ralph.brandt@pateam.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
While what you say is true (heck, I'm one of them), my point is that a =
great many
network engineers have relatively strong programming backgrounds and if =
you
could convince one of them to go back to writing code (sufficiently =
interesting
project and/or right $$) you'd probably have better luck than finding a =
programmer
that has networking skills.
Owen
On Feb 28, 2012, at 5:18 AM, Brandt, Ralph wrote:
> Owen, I can only say it is my opinion, based on some years of =
experience
> and working with people who have come from both sides. I have seen =
more
> people successfully move from programming to networking than the
> reverse.
>=20
>=20
> Ralph Brandt
> Communications Engineer
> HP Enterprise Services
> Telephone +1 717.506.0802
> FAX +1 717.506.4358
> Email Ralph.Brandt@pateam.com
> 5095 Ritter Rd
> Mechanicsburg PA 17055
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:14 PM
> To: david raistrick
> Cc: Brandt, Ralph; NANOG
> Subject: Re: Programmers with network engineering skills
>=20
>=20
> On Feb 27, 2012, at 12:31 PM, david raistrick wrote:
>=20
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2012, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>=20
>>> I think you're more likely to find a network engineer with (possibly
> limited)
>>> programming skills.
>>=20
>> While I'll agree about the more likely, if I needed a coder who had a
> firm grasp of networking I'd rather teach a good coder networking, =
than
> try to teach the art and magic of good development to a network guy.
>>=20
>=20
> Well, I won't call myself a hard-core coder, but, I think I have a
> reasonable grasp on the art and magic of good development. What I =
mostly
> lack is speed and efficiency in the language of choice for whatever
> project. I can write good code, it just takes me longer than it would
> take a hard-core coder.
>=20
> OTOH, having done both, I would say that I think you are not =
necessarily
> correct about which direction of teaching is harder. Yes, if you start
> with a network engineer that knows nothing about writing code or =
doesn't
> understand the principles of good coding, you're probably right.
> However, starting with a network engineer that can write decent code
> slowly, I think you will get a better result in most cases than if you
> try to teach network engineering to a hard-core coder that has only a
> minimal understanding of networking.
>=20
>> I think it really comes down to which you need: a hardcore network
> engineer/architect who can hack up code, or a hardcore developer who =
has
> or can obtain enough of a grasp of networking fundementals and =
specifics
> to build you the software you need him to develop.
>>=20
>=20
> I'm guessing that someone who needed a hard-core developer that could
> grasp fundamentals would have grabbed an existing coder and handed him =
a
> copy of Comer.
>=20
> The fact that this person posted to NANOG instead implies to me that =
he
> needs someone that has a better grasp than just the fundamentals.
>=20
> Of course I am speculating about that and I could be wrong.
>=20
>> The ones who already know both ends extremely well are going to be
> -very- hard to find, but finding one who can learn enough of the other
> to accomplish what you need shouldn't be hard at all.
>>=20
>=20
> Depends on what you need. However, I think it's faster to go from
> limited coding skills with a good basis in the fundamentals to usable
> development than to go from limited networking skills to a firm grasp =
on
> how networks behave in the real world. To the best of my knowledge,
> nothing but experience will teach you the latter. Even with 20+ years
> experience networks do still occasionally manage to surprise me.
>=20
>> ...d (who is not exactly the former though I've played one for TV, =
and
> not at all the later)
>=20
> I am admittedly lost given the three choices as to which constitutes
> former or latter at this point.
>=20
> 1. Strong coder with limited networking
> 2. Strong networker with limited coding
> 3. Strong in both
>=20
> Owen
> Who is a strong network engineer
> Who has been a professional software engineer (though many years ago =
and
> my skills are rusty
> and out of date)
