[146906] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Looking for a Tier 1 ISP Mentor for career advice.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jeff Richmond)
Sat Nov 26 13:29:43 2011
From: Jeff Richmond <jeff.richmond@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAA8=vb45jNS3J85V03LdHfbRg0u7sOv8OHkCB4G=oikuW6JU9A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:28:03 -0800
To: David Swafford <david@davidswafford.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
All excellent advice, but let me point out something else. I manage a =
team of backbone engineers and still do quite a bit of engineering work =
myself. When I interview, I never get caught up on certs or degrees. =
Now, do I ignore them? No, of course not. They do mean something and I =
know I worked hard for my JNCIE, so they add value. However, what I want =
to see is someone that is energetic and has a drive to learn, but the =
most important piece of my interviews once I am confident they meet my =
technical needs is the personality evaluation. I know my team works =
crappy hours, gets pulled 100 different directions and just really have =
a tough job sometimes. What I can't have is a toxic person added to the =
mix, no matter how ridiculously smart or qualified they might be. So =
there have been times I have turned away more qualified candidates just =
because I was not comfortable with their attitude or vibe. Hiring and =
firing is extremely difficult to correct if you make the wrong choice, =
and I have learned a thing or two over the years in this regard.
That said, there is something else to consider too. In most large =
companies, the managers don't always have a lot of power when it comes =
to salaries and in some cases, even promotions. So, without specific =
experience and a salary history, you may be artificially held down due =
to HR policies no matter how well you do. I know that has happened a =
number of times at various places I have worked, and it is frustrating =
both for the candidate and the manager. There are many places where it =
is better to actually leave the company and come back to get around the =
HR constraints regarding salary augments from internal promotions. So, =
just be aware that even though you are working hard and going above and =
beyond, you might not always get initially rewarded for it. However, in =
time it will almost always correct itself, but even so, keeping a =
positive attitude and having a desire to learn will always benefit you =
in the end one way or another.=20
Of course, once you get to the point of being in the industry for a long =
time like most of us here, you'll look back and say what the heck was I =
thinking, I should have been an accountant. Heh :)
Best of luck,
-Jeff
On Nov 22, 2011, at 3:52 AM, David Swafford wrote:
> Scott's point is very true! Motivation will help you go very far,
> much farther than certs/knowledge alone. As a soon to be
> college-grad, be ready for the initial disappointment, :-), even
> though you'll have your CCNP, you have no real experience, so you'll
> start at the entry level. That's not a bad thing, but you might see
> it as such. The reason it is good, is that while at the entry level
> (networking that is, I'm not talking about a helpdesk), you'll get to
> touch and interact with a lot of different things with very little
> "total" responsibility.
>=20
> As you impress your peers, this will trickle up towards management,
> and eventually work it's way out into better tasks and larger
> responsibilities (try to not get caught up in "the title"). I'm
> speaking from experience here, I'm a senior network engineer for a $2
> B company, yet only 25 years old, currently working on my R/S CCIE
> purely for the learning experience. It took me nearly 4 years to move
> from an associate to a senior in my company, which is not common in
> that short of a time-frame for my employer, but that's where the
> motivation piece comes in -- expressing true passion, and learning
> things because "they are cool/interest you" will take you far.
> Learning on paper is what you're taught in college and it only works
> so far, but learning from hand-on, like the lab you've got built, is
> where you attain the knowledge/troubleshooting/experience that will
> help you succeed.
>=20
> A comment earlier in the thread mentioned "should I learn active
> directory/exchange"? I hear this a lot from our fellow associate's on
> the team.... and to be honest, if you are learning something just to
> add it to your resume, that will be a waste of your time. But, if you
> are learning it because you find it interesting or just want to
> explore, then by all means go deep into it. I personally go by the
> motto "go full in or don't go at all". So if I'm going to learn
> something, I'll get as deep as I can into it, and focus on just it for
> a little while, then I'll move to something else, and focus on just
> that. If you try to focus on too many separate things, you'll become
> this odd ball of knowledge that can't really hold you own -- a tip in
> the industry that will get you far: be able to take ownership, and
> fully run/own what you're working on. Regardless of level/title/role,
> a person who takes initive (within the scope/dynamic of their
> position), will go far.
>=20
> Best of luck to you,
> David.
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Scott Weeks <surfer@mauigateway.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> --- tyler.haske@gmail.com wrote:
>> From: Tyler Haske <tyler.haske@gmail.com>
>>=20
>> I'd love to have varied experience with a bunch of different =
companies, but
>> first I'm trying to guarantee my first network engineering job out of
>> college.
>> -----------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>> You've already taken the first step. That step being you becoming =
more motivated than many of the other soon-to-be-graduates around you. =
This motivation will carry you a long way in your career. Who knows, =
you may be applying to someone here on this list one day...
>>=20
>> scott
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
