[146889] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Network device command line interfaces
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jonathon Exley)
Thu Nov 24 23:39:45 2011
From: Jonathon Exley <Jonathon.Exley@kordia.co.nz>
To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:38:23 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CABO8Q6RzJfZpgTXK_0qHXuSgN0MGP8O1P0tgW6Wh_yW5Nhc5Nw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
Yeah, I guess Cisco IOS isn't that good an example of a consistent syntax. =
Others do it better - Junos sets the ASN with the 'routing-options autonomo=
us-system' command, and TiMOS uses 'router autonomous-system'
My rant wasn't about having to deal with new CLIs but about the lack of CLI=
s in those devices that seem to prefer menu based UIs (text or web), and CL=
Is that have nasty commands. Check this out:
add flow fid-5-5 EVC-30600-Data codefault enable multi swap 99968000 100032=
000 1024 1024 5000 ctag push 15-0 stag none
Now what does that string of numbers mean? It's the Adva 825 way of specify=
ing the CIR and EIR for a flow but I can never remember what each position =
represents.
Compare this to TiMOS:
sap-ingress 93 create
description "Test LNS"
queue 1 create
rate 2000
mbs 25 kilobytes
exit
This creates a queue with max rate 2000 kbit/s and a max burst size of 25 k=
B. It's much easier to read than the Adva config, because each parameter is=
labelled.
The Adva CLI isn't actually all that bad, but it's possible that had their =
developers had some sort of usability guide when they wrote the OS then the=
y might have done things better.
I was hoping that there was already some sort of usability guide around tha=
t could be shown to the manufacturers with a "please read this" note attach=
ed. Is anyone aware of such a thing?
Jonathon.
From: Keegan Holley [mailto:keegan.holley@sungard.com]
Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 4:12 p.m.
To: Jonathon Exley
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Network device command line interfaces
I may have a different opinion here, but I not sure I'd call any CLI easy t=
o work with. Cisco's training machine is so efficient that some learn IOS =
before leaving high school, so the fact that we all consider IOS easy to wo=
rk with is relative. Just look at the "router" command. Most of us know t=
hat this is cisco's way of enabling protocols, but I would hardly call this=
intuitive if I didn't know it already. Then it's different for each proto=
col. So "router BGP #" starts the BGP process and sets your local AS number=
(very important). "router eigrp #" starts eigrp and sets a different AS nu=
mber that doesn't really count (also important). "router ospf #" just sets =
a process ID in case you want to run multiple instances. There's also a co=
nfig mode autonomous-system command but that only counts if your running EG=
P which is still in the CLI but isn't supported and doesn't start. Then th=
ere's all the different things you can/must do with access-lists because th=
ey were too lazy to code a different sort of filter. Remember CBAC? Did I=
mention this is the CLI we like? I don't mind wrestling with a new CLI be=
cause it's all relative. Most have read at least one cisco book and probab=
ly one juniper book so those CLI's are considered standard and all their si=
ns are forgiven. Most of us have not gone through, training with extreme, =
enterasys, 3COM, netgear, foundry, fortigate, etc. etc. etc. So those beco=
me the PITA CLI's and suddenly non-standard commands and bad help menus bec=
ome a crime again. I do find text-based menus obnoxious, unless it's a lin=
ux box and the text menu is a curses interface. In that case it's super-co=
ol and I'm even willing to play games with text based menus.
2011/11/23 Jonathon Exley <Jonathon.Exley@kordia.co.nz<mailto:Jonathon.Exle=
y@kordia.co.nz>>
Does anyone else despair at the CLIs produced by networking vendors?
Real routers use a CLI that is command based, like IOS, TiMOS or Junos. The=
se interfaces work well over low bandwidth connections (unlike web interfac=
es), can work with config backup systems like RANCID, have a (mostly) consi=
stent structure and good show commands.
However vendors of low cost routers/switches/muxes seem to take a stab in t=
he dark and produce some really nasty stuff. I have a personal hate of text=
based menus and binary config backup files.
Doe this p*** off anyone else? The business part of the company says "This =
device is great! It's cheap and does everything." However the poor sap who =
is given the task to make it work has to wrestle with a badly designed user=
interface and illogical syntax.
Maybe the vendors need some sort of best practices guide for what manageabi=
lity features their kit needs to support to make them acceptable to the mar=
ket. Does anyone know if there is anything along these lines?
Jonathon.
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