[142667] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Fred Baker)
Mon Jul 11 21:37:20 2011
From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <4E19D049.8010006@unfix.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:13:15 -0400
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Jul 10, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Jeroen Massar wrote:
> On 2011-07-10 17:56 , David Miller wrote:
> [..]
>> +1
>>=20
>> The lack of will on the part of the IETF to attract input from and =
involve operators in their processes (which I would posit is a critical =
element in the process).
>=20
> Ehmmmm ANYBODY, including you, can sign up to the IETF mailing lists =
and participate there, just like a couple of folks from NANOG are =
already doing.
>=20
> You are on NANOG out of your own free will, the same applies to the =
IETF. If you don't participate here your voice is not heard either, just
> like at the IETF.
>=20
> Peeking at the ipv6@ietf.org member list, I don't see your name there. =
You can signup here: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
Thanks, Jeroen.
For IPv6 functionality, I'd suggest ipv6@ietf.org =
(https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6). For IPv6 operational =
issues, I'd suggest v6ops@ietf.org =
(https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops). For security-related =
issues, you might also look into opsec@ietf.org =
(https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec).
On Jul 10, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> Number two: While anyone can participate, approaching IETF as an =
operator requires a rather thick skin, or, at least it did the last =
couple of times I attempted to participate. I've watched a few times =
where operators were shouted down by purists and religion over basic =
real-world operational concerns.
That goes both ways. I periodically see dismissive statements about the =
IETF on operational lists, and dismissive statements about operators on =
IETF lists. I would classify David's comment as "dismissive", the kind =
of comment that causes IETF folks to not participate in operational =
meetings or lists, and the kind of comment cited by operational folks =
such as you as reasons to leave IETF meetings and lists. Such comments =
tend to come from a small set of individuals on each side. If such =
comments bother you, feel free to block the in-duh-viduals that send =
them. Personally, I try to listen to them; they are often telling me =
something I need to hear but don't want to.
