[142649] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Anybody can participate in the IETF (Was: Why is IPv6 broken?)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Mon Jul 11 17:26:36 2011
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <D530403A-2A3F-497D-B732-D7121901F061@bogus.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:21:27 -0700
To: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
>=20
>> You disagree? What are your thoughts on fixing the problem?
>=20
> I'm not sure that we agree on the dimensions of the problem.
>=20
> on the question of ipv6 is broken:
>=20
> * You're going to have to cope with what you have and can squeeze out =
of vendors in the near term. implmentors don't change that fast.
> * People have to show up with the problem statement and stick around =
to do the work
> * the outcomes are not always pretty.
>=20
I don't think that has anything to do with the problem Bill is trying to =
address.
While it is the topic that started this thread, the problem that I think =
Bill is trying to address
and which I agree needs to be addressed is that IETF standards are =
developed with what
has become increasingly obvious as insufficient operator input.
Yes, operators are partially to blame in that decisions are made by =
those that show up
and operators have a hard time showing up to the IETF process for a =
variety of reasons
that are mostly related to the realities of running day to day =
operations and not realy
something the IETF can easily address.
However, part of the problem also relates to ways in which the IETF is =
particularly
difficult for operators to credibly participate. (the amount of ego and =
religion in some
of the working groups, the need for a thick skin if you want to make a =
statement
that goes counter to the current dogma, the time-consuming nature of =
meaningful
participation, etc.).
I don't pretend to have answers to all of these problems, but, I think =
there first needs
to be recognition and consensus that the lack of operator input into the =
IETF
is becoming increasingly problematic and is impacting the ability to =
deploy what
is developed by the IETF.
Owen
