[139667] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: 365x24x7 (sleep patterns)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mark Green)
Fri Apr 15 12:44:53 2011
From: Mark Green <ktm200exc@hotmail.com>
To: <nanog@nanog.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:44:47 -0700
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2805.1302882739.16627.nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
Suggestion=3B once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months.=
.. Sleep patterns take time to adjust. Jumping between day and night shif=
ts will burn out even the most motivated employee. =20
Mark Green
=20
> From: nanog-request@nanog.org
> Subject: NANOG Digest=2C Vol 39=2C Issue 46
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 15:52:19 +0000
>=20
> Send NANOG mailing list submissions to
> nanog@nanog.org
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web=2C visit
> https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
> or=2C via email=2C send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nanog-request@nanog.org
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nanog-owner@nanog.org
>=20
> When replying=2C please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..."
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:
>=20
> 1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
> 2. Re: New hijacks=2C and lots of them (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> 3. Re: 365x24x7 (Peter Hicks)
> 4. Re: 365x24x7 (Charles Mills)
> 5. RE: 365x24x7 (Greg Moore)
> 6. Re: 365x24x7 (Steve Clark)
> 7. Re: 365x24x7 (Marshall Eubanks)
> 8. Re: 365x24x7 (Alex Brooks)
> 9. RE: 365x24x7 (Sanders=2C Randall K)
> 10. Re: 365x24x7 (Tony Finch)
> 11. Re: 365x24x7 (harbor235)
> 12. Re: 365x24x7 (Paul Graydon)
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:14:05 -0400
> From: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>
> Subject: 365x24x7
> To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimD9jYVzM_hv21y9LHzObR3RVG0YA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=20
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personnel =
do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover t=
he
> required
> 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>=20
> thoughts=2C experience?
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 06:17:06 -0700
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com>
> Subject: Re: New hijacks=2C and lots of them=20
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Message-ID: <2971.1302873426@tristatelogic.com>
>=20
>=20
> In message <5824.1302780126@tristatelogic.com>=2C I wrote:
>=20
> > http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
> > http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>=20
> My apologies to anyone and everyone who tried to get at these files.
> It seems that my provider may perhaps have recently developed some
> rather odd ideas about packet filtering for static broadband lines.
> Until I can get the problem worked out=2C the following alternative URLs
> ought to do instead:
>=20
> ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
> ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 14:17:48 +0100
> From: Peter Hicks <peter.hicks@poggs.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <066F653E-C0F8-4026-9FE0-3A8899378D0C@poggs.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3Dus-ascii
>=20
>=20
> On 15 Apr 2011=2C at 14:14=2C harbor235 wrote:
>=20
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to =
cover the
> > required 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>=20
>=20
> Although more geared up for on-call=2C http://blog.hinterlands.org/2010/0=
7/running-an-oncall-rota/ is a very useful resource.
>=20
>=20
> Peter
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:25:02 -0400
> From: Charles Mills <w3yni1@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>=2C NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTint8hnfenSQZBHoS3x4hAS_P78JNA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=20
> I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
> working 12 hour shifts.
>=20
> In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
> and 44 the next. It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
> also doubles as a retention tool for some employees. You might have
> to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.
>=20
> On Fri=2C Apr 15=2C 2011 at 9:14 AM=2C harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover=
the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >
> > thoughts=2C experience?
> >
> > Mike
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Charles L. Mills
> Email: w3yni1@gmail.com
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Need server hosting=2C DR or colocation services?? See me!
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:37:54 -0400
> From: Greg Moore <mooregr@greenms.com>
> Subject: RE: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>=2C NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.2806.1302882739.16627.nanog@nanog.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>=20
> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could =
cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
>=20
> I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or =
so. =20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harbor235
> Sent: Friday=2C April 15=2C 2011 9:14 AM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: 365x24x7
>=20
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personnel =
do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover t=
he
> required
> 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>=20
> thoughts=2C experience?
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:48:42 -0400
> From: Steve Clark <sclark@netwolves.com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: Charles Mills <w3yni1@gmail.com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <4DA84CBA.5030409@netwolves.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1=3B format=3Dflowed
>=20
> On 04/15/2011 09:25 AM=2C Charles Mills wrote:
> > I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
> > working 12 hour shifts.
> >
> > In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
> > and 44 the next. It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
> > also doubles as a retention tool for some employees. You might have
> > to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.
> >
> > On Fri=2C Apr 15=2C 2011 at 9:14 AM=2C harbor235<harbor235@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> >> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personn=
el do I
> >> need
> >> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cove=
r the
> >> required
> >> 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >>
> >> thoughts=2C experience?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >
> >
> I worked once in a production plant. They had 4 crews a=2Cb=2Cc=2Cd and w=
orked 6 days on 2 off. It was rotating shifts. As an example crew A worked =
6
> days 8-4 was off 2 days then started the next shift on 4-midnight=2C then=
midnight to 8. So at any one day 3 of the 4 crews were working and the oth=
er
> crew was off.
>=20
> --=20
> Stephen Clark
> *NetWolves*
> Sr. Software Engineer III
> Phone: 813-579-3200
> Fax: 813-882-0209
> Email: steve.clark@netwolves.com
> http://www.netwolves.com
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:52:11 -0400
> From: Marshall Eubanks <tme@americafree.tv>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: Greg Moore <mooregr@greenms.com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <CAC57439-9CCC-42E3-8CB4-FA4141D8F3DA@americafree.tv>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3Dus-ascii
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Apr 15=2C 2011=2C at 9:37 AM=2C Greg Moore wrote:
>=20
> > When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I coul=
d cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
> >=20
> > I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months o=
r so. =20
> >=20
>=20
> When I worked with NASA and the Navy on remote locations that needed full=
time staffing=2C the rule of thumb was
> 5 people and 4 shifts was the absolute minimum=2C and the people had to b=
e motivated enough to pull 12 hour shifts on a regular basis (i.e.=2C this
> was very bare bones). The 4th shift was needed during the weekends.=20
>=20
> Anything less=2C and you would have uncovered periods if=2C say=2C 2 peop=
le got sick simultaneously.
>=20
> Regards
> Marshall
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: harbor235
> > Sent: Friday=2C April 15=2C 2011 9:14 AM
> > To: NANOG list
> > Subject: 365x24x7
> >=20
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover=
the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >=20
> > thoughts=2C experience?
> >=20
> > Mike
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 15:27:32 +0100
> From: Alex Brooks <askoorb+nanog@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikkVH_yk=3D97oWgq_A0YLxZ9dxNVXg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=20
> On Fri=2C Apr 15=2C 2011 at 2:14 PM=2C harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover=
the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>=20
> Well=2C if you feel like being "nice" to your employees=2C or want to sto=
p
> them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work=2C (or if
> you're having to set something up abroad)=2C the Working Time Directive
> can be a useful guideline.
>=20
> (Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
> and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=3D107385892=
6
> if you're board=2C ignore the silly bits)
>=20
> But basically=2C in general=2C workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:
>=20
> - work no more than six days out of every seven=2C or 12 out of every 14
> - take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
> - work a maximum 48-hour average week
>=20
> And in general=2C night workers:
>=20
> - should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
> period=2C averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks
>=20
> If you're an employer=2C be glad you're in North America :-)
>=20
> HTH=2C
>=20
> Alex
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 09:31:48 -0500
> From: "Sanders=2C Randall K" <Randall.K.Sanders@xo.com>
> Subject: RE: 365x24x7
> To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID:
> <B0E45381691B4E4188ECEE2507142CFC5C7B3660@txplanexch01.corp.inthosts.net=
>
> =09
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3D"us-ascii"
>=20
> Have you taken into account number of alarms per hour=2C inbound call vol=
ume for repairs=2C and how much repair is done at the first tier level? Ba=
re minimum staffing in a busy environment?
>=20
> Randy Sanders
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Brooks [mailto:askoorb+nanog@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Friday=2C April 15=2C 2011 9:28 AM
> To: nanog
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
>=20
> On Fri=2C Apr 15=2C 2011 at 2:14 PM=2C harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover=
the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>=20
> Well=2C if you feel like being "nice" to your employees=2C or want to sto=
p
> them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work=2C (or if
> you're having to set something up abroad)=2C the Working Time Directive
> can be a useful guideline.
>=20
> (Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
> and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=3D107385892=
6
> if you're board=2C ignore the silly bits)
>=20
> But basically=2C in general=2C workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:
>=20
> - work no more than six days out of every seven=2C or 12 out of every 14
> - take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
> - work a maximum 48-hour average week
>=20
> And in general=2C night workers:
>=20
> - should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
> period=2C averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks
>=20
> If you're an employer=2C be glad you're in North America :-)
>=20
> HTH=2C
>=20
> Alex
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 15:36:35 +0100
> From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID:
> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1104151530010.19442@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN=3B charset=3DUS-ASCII
>=20
> harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l
> > do I need to fully cover operations?
>=20
> Hours in the working year =3D 8 * 5 * 48 =3D 1920
> Hours in the calendar year =3D 24 * 7 * 52 =3D 8736
> Ratio =3D 4.55
>=20
> Tony.
> --=20
> f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/
> Rockall=2C Malin=2C Hebrides: South 5 to 7=2C occasionally gale 8 at firs=
t in
> Rockall and Malin=2C veering west or northwest 4 or 5=2C then backing sou=
thwest 5
> or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good=2C
> occasionally poor.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 10:52:02 -0400
> From: harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinLSBedu3hq8hg4ihjEMcOHHbRjGg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=20
> Guys=2C
>=20
> Thanx alot=2C there is some great stuff here=2C also some stuff I had not
> thought of.
>=20
> thanx again=2C
>=20
> Mike
>=20
> On Fri=2C Apr 15=2C 2011 at 10:36 AM=2C Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote:
>=20
> > harbor235 <harbor235@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of person=
nel
> > > do I need to fully cover operations?
> >
> > Hours in the working year =3D 8 * 5 * 48 =3D 1920
> > Hours in the calendar year =3D 24 * 7 * 52 =3D 8736
> > Ratio =3D 4.55
> >
> > Tony.
> > --
> > f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/
> > Rockall=2C Malin=2C Hebrides: South 5 to 7=2C occasionally gale 8 at fi=
rst in
> > Rockall and Malin=2C veering west or northwest 4 or 5=2C then backing s=
outhwest
> > 5
> > or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good=2C
> > occasionally poor.
> >
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri=2C 15 Apr 2011 05:52:13 -1000
> From: Paul Graydon <paul@paulgraydon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Message-ID: <4DA869AD.9070202@paulgraydon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain=3B charset=3DISO-8859-1=3B format=3Dflowed
>=20
> On 4/15/2011 3:14 AM=2C harbor235 wrote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC=2C how many teams of personne=
l do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover=
the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage=2C but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >
> > thoughts=2C experience?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> For what it's worth=2C was part of a datacenter operations department tha=
t=20
> had a 24x7 team. 4 shifts=2C 4 staff on each shift (1 was supervisor who=
=20
> did same work as the rest=2C 1 'point of contact' who stayed in the offic=
e).
> 4 days on=2C 4 days off=2C 12 hour shifts=2C 8-8. Shift teams would alte=
rnate=20
> between day and night (so 4 day=2C 4 off=2C 4 night=2C 4 off=2C repeat ad=
=20
> infinitum). During the day that was bolstered by 6 day-staff=2C Monday t=
o=20
> Friday=2C who would have a staggered start through the day (IIRC 2 start=
=20
> at 8=2C 2 at 9=2C 2 at 11)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> NANOG mailing list
> NANOG@nanog.org
> https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
>=20
> End of NANOG Digest=2C Vol 39=2C Issue 46
> *************************************
=
