[136601] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: And so it ends...
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jeffrey Lyon)
Thu Feb 3 16:28:31 2011
In-Reply-To: <9A144B1F-323C-47A3-AA2C-F96E24A1729D@cs.fiu.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:27:38 -0500
From: Jeffrey Lyon <jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net>
To: Ernie Rubi <ernesto@cs.fiu.edu>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Ernie Rubi <ernesto@cs.fiu.edu> wrote:
> Way off topic here...and into the legal arena:
>
> As to the monopoly classification, do you think, at least with ARIN (sinc=
e it is a US/Virginia corporation) that Sherman Act =A72 (i.e. antitrust) p=
rinciples could be applied to require that it relinquish some of the contro=
l over said IP space/database and act in a more competitive manner? =A0What=
about the other RIRs worldwide? =A0I'm not an antitrust lawyer, but there =
may be an issue there.
>
> There was a paper a while back from a UMiami (Michael Froomkin) professor=
talking about ICANN and Antitrust. =A0http://arxiv.org/pdf/cs/0109075 =A0-=
This is a legal paper, not an engineering paper.
>
> I wonder if those same principles could be applied here.
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 3:42 PM, David Conrad wrote:
>
>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>> That remains to be seen. If they give up their space, it is unclear tha=
t they have any right to transfer it to another
>>> organization rather than return it to the successor registry. There is =
no precedent established showing that
>>> this is allowed.
>>
>> Right. =A0Like Compaq returned 16/8 when they acquired Digital (and HP r=
eturned 16/8 when they acquired Compaq).
>>
>>> That remains to be seen. IANA has declared them the successor registrie=
s
>>
>> No. =A0First, "IANA" does not exist. =A0The term "IANA" now refers to a =
series of functions currently performed under contract from the US Dept. of=
Commerce, NTIA by ICANN. =A0As such it can't declare anything.
>>
>> Second, neither ICANN nor the USG has (to my knowledge) declared the RIR=
s to be "successor registries" (whatever they are). =A0The IPv4 registry co=
ntinues to exist and will undoubtedly be maintained as it always has been. =
=A0The only real difference is that there aren't any more IPv4 /8s tagged w=
ith "UNALLOCATED".
>>
>>> The other thing to consider is that the RIR doesn't really need to "rec=
laim" the block, per se. They can simply stop providing uniqueness to the o=
rganizations that don't have a contract with them and issue those numbers t=
o some other organization that has a contract. The other organization would=
know that their uniqueness is limited to those cooperating in the registry=
system.
>>>
>>> Does an organization that has no contract with an RIR have a right to e=
xpect that RIR to continue to provide them a unique registration?
>>
>> The RIRs are self-defined geographical monopolies that provide a set of =
public infrastructure services to the Internet community at large. =A0It's =
an interesting question whether that service is limited to only those folks=
who pay -- my guess if the RIRs took this stance, they'd be looking down t=
he barrel of numerous governmental anti-monopoly/anti-cartel agencies.
>>
>> However, pragmatically speaking, the folks who matter in any of this are=
the ISPs. =A0The RIRs exist primarily as a means by which ISPs can avoid d=
oing a myriad set of bilateral agreements as to who "owns" what address spa=
ce to ensure uniqueness. =A0If the RIRs reduce their value by no longer pro=
viding that service in an effective way (e.g., by doing what you suggest), =
I suspect the ISPs would find other entities to provide global uniqueness s=
ervices.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -drc
>>
>
> Ernesto M. Rubi
> Sr. Network Engineer
> AMPATH/CIARA
> Florida International Univ, Miami
> Reply-to: ernesto@cs.fiu.edu
> Cell: 786-282-6783
>
>
>
>
>
Pragmatically, compelling the release of a legacy allocation to a
major company could be difficult, however, if the ARIN community were
to draft a resolution to reclaim the space it may have a profound
effect on public sentiment toward those companies.
--=20
Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team
jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net
Black Lotus Communications - AS32421
First and Leading in DDoS Protection Solutions
