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From: Ray Corbin <rcorbin@traffiq.com> To: Jo Rhett <jrhett@netconsonance.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:34:36 -0600 In-Reply-To: <A7F2327C-EA78-480E-812C-D6FDD7008978@netconsonance.com> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org I'm quite aware of what comes from AOL's feedback loops, I used it for year= s when I was an email administrator for a large shared webhosting company p= rocessing ~2.5million outbound emails per day. I remember getting thousand = reports per day. You can automate the process and that is why they use a st= andard format (Parse the message and run reports on who is getting spam com= plaints etc etc). If you are sending them X emails per day you can expect a= t least 0.3% or so to be marked as spam (including forwarders). I cant imag= ine you receiving 'thousands' of complaints like the one you are referring = to...and if you are then you are sending them a larger volume then 100,000 = emails per day (non-forwarded). If the feedback loop becomes more of a burd= en then a helpful notification tool unsubscribe.=20 -r ________________________________________ From: Jo Rhett [jrhett@netconsonance.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:26 PM To: Ray Corbin Cc: Richey; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Yahoo and their mail filters.. On Feb 25, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Ray Corbin wrote: > It depends on your environment. I've seen where it is helpful and > where it is overwhelming. If you are a smaller company and want to > know why you keep getting blocked then those should help. If you are > a larger company and get a several hundred a day, but you send 100k > emails to AOL then it is not as big of a deal. If you are a shared > hosting provider and you get a lot of them you should look into what > is being sent to AOL, such as forwarded spam from customers 'auto > forwards' (isolate the auto forwards to a separate IP address and > simply don't sign up for the FBL for it).... If you have a good > setup where only customer-originated email is being sent through the > IP's you have a FBL on, then it is useful and you shouldn't get as > many complaints. Ray, you don't get it. What comes from AOL is literally every step in a mother-daughter conversion. You get to read the entire thread. Loving chat, mother and daughter back and forth. But one of them is hitting SPAM on the e-mail *AFTER* replying to it and writing a nice letter back. This is abuse of the abuse department. This isn't spam. Reading through ~3k of these not-spams every day doesn't help us solve any actual abuse problems. Feedback loops will not be useful until the providers of the feedback loops accept reports about use of the spam reporting tools, and are willing to go fix their user behavior. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness
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