[112397] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Yahoo and their mail filters..
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Micheal Patterson)
Wed Feb 25 13:35:50 2009
From: "Micheal Patterson" <micheal@spmedicalgroup.com>
To: "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>,
<stefan@csudsu.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:31:16 -0600
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>
To: <stefan@csudsu.com>
Cc: "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <ops.lists@gmail.com>; "Micheal Patterson"
<micheal@spmedicalgroup.com>; <nanog@nanog.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Yahoo and their mail filters..
>
> On February 25, 2009 at 04:26 stefan@csudsu.com (Stefan Molnar) wrote:
> > For our userbase with yahoo/hotmail/aol accouts they hit the spam
> > button more often than delete. Then complain they do not get emails
> > anymore from us, then want discounts on a bill of sale they missed.
> > It is a never ending story.
> >
>
> I realize this is easier in theory than practice but I wonder how much
> better the whole AOL (et al) spam button would get if they ignored the
> spam button unless two (to pick a number) different customers clicked
> the same sender (I know, forged sender etc but something like that) as
> spam in a reasonably short amount of time like an hour or a day at
> most.
>
> I know of the 99.99% false positives I get I am pretty sure if the
> threshold were two related complaints it'd get rid of, well, probably
> 99.99% of them (percentages not scientifically accurate!)
>
> Ok, that's not an algorithm but I hope you see my point.
>
> My point is that what makes spam "spam" is not that some one clicks a
> spam button, it's that more than one person, and just two might be a
> sufficient threshold in practice, believes it's spam. At least from
> the POV of a network operator trying to id spam sources from spam
> button clicks.
>
> If they ever get it down to fretting about spams really sent to only
> one AOL (et al) customer then one could revisit this idea.
>
Barry, there's also the honest accidental emailings that are being
clicked as spam as well. In the days of old, spam was unsolicited bulk
email. The problem that I see currently is what is Sally in Florida is
sending mail to joe@thisdomain.com, hosted by yahoo, when they should
have sent it to jjoe@thisdomain.com or joel@thisdomain.com and the
recipient clicks it as spam. Bam, Sally's now a spammer in the eyes of
yahoo.
This is not much different in practice than what Spews used to do. Blow
out an entire /16 to stop what they "percieved" as spam from someone
deep in the trenches, without very little recourse to remove yourself
from the axe path unless you switched providers.
--
Micheal Patterson
