[107348] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: GLBX De-Peers Intercage [Was: RE: Washington Post: Atrivo/Intercag
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Frank Bulk)
Mon Sep 1 15:36:28 2008
From: "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk@iname.com>
To: <nanog@merit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <g3sksjeqjn.fsf@nsa.vix.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:36:04 -0500
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Any discussion on this or any other public list about joint action could be
portrayed as conspiracy. As Paul said, set your financial and carreer
affairs in order before doing so.
Better for each company's netops to quietly blacklist IPs/netblocks/ASNs as
they each see fit. If the traffic coming/going to there is truly garbage,
then customers won't complain. If there are valid concerns, then operators
can work with their customers individiually.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Vixie [mailto:vixie@isc.org]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:15 PM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: GLBX De-Peers Intercage [Was: RE: Washington Post:
Atrivo/Intercag
fergdawg@netzero.net ("Paul Ferguson") writes:
> My next question to the peanut gallery is: What do you suggest we should
> do on other hosting IP blocks are are continuing to host criminal
> activity, even in the face of abuse reports, etc.?
depending on what you mean by "we", the immortal words of many MAPS
lawsuits spring to mind here: "illegal conspiracy" and "prospective
economic advantage." simply put, if a bunch of like-minded folks want to
get together and decide that a given ISP is behaving badly and all decide
to deny peering and transit to that ISP, then you should all first divorce
your husband or wife after putting all joint assets in his or her name.
> Seriously -- I think this is an issue which needs to be addressed
> here. ISPs cannot continue to sweep this issue under the proverbial
> carpet.
>
> Is this an issue that network operations folk don't really care about?
the great unsolved problem in every network is "other people's networks".
whether that's networks who won't peer with you, or networks who drop your
customers' packets either because of shaping or overcommit, or networks who
sell service to people you hate and then run a crappy abuse desk, it's all
one thing: OPN: Other People's Networks. OPN's are an unmanageable risk to
all of us. netops people generally sweep OPNs under the rug, yes.
--
Paul Vixie
