[103679] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Problems sending mail to yahoo?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Raymond L. Corbin)
Thu Apr 10 16:47:41 2008
From: "Raymond L. Corbin" <rcorbin@hostmysite.com>
To: Chris Stone <cstone@axint.net>,
"Raymond L. Corbin"
<rcorbin@hostmysite.com>
CC: "nanog@merit.edu" <nanog@merit.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:52:39 -0400
In-Reply-To: <47FE6B80.2010500@axint.net>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Yeah, but without them saying which IP's are causing the problems you can't=
really tell which servers in a datacenter are forwarding their spam/abusin=
g Yahoo. Once the /24 block is in place then they claim to have no way of k=
nowing who actually caused the block on the /24. The feedback loop would he=
lp depending on your network size. When you have a few hundred thousand cli=
ents, and those clients have clients, and they even have client, it simply =
floods your abuse desk with complaints from Yahoo when it is obviously forw=
arded spam. So it's more of pick your poison deal with customer complaints =
about not being able to send to yahoo for a few days or get your abuse desk=
flooded with complaints which hinders solving actual issues like compromis=
ed accounts.
-Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Stone [mailto:cstone@axint.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:33 PM
To: Raymond L. Corbin
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Problems sending mail to yahoo?
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Raymond L. Corbin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have had to tell some dedicated server clients that they will need to d=
isable their forwards to Yahoo or add something like postini for those acco=
unts that forward to Yahoo...It generally works...however Yahoo! for the pa=
st three months is now blocking entire /24's if a few IP's get complaints. =
They have the feedback loops however when you have a network with 175,000 I=
P addresses and you sign up for a feedback loop for them all they tend to f=
lood your abuse desk with false positives, or forwarded spam. They also don=
't keep track of which IP's are getting the complaints for you to investiga=
te after the block on the /24 so asking them won't help :(. This potentiall=
y means one customer could easily effect the other customer. They offer whi=
telisting, but this won't get you passed their blocks on the entire /24. Th=
ey apparently will eventually accept the message because they aren't necess=
arily 'blocked' but they are 'depriortized' meaning they don't believe your=
IP is importan
t enough to deliver the message at that time, so they want you to keep tryi=
ng and when their servers are not 'busy' or 'over loaded' they will accept =
the message. (Paraphrased from conversations with their 'Bulk Mail Advocaci=
es and Anti-Abuse manager.)
I've had to tell some of our customers the same and that if they wanted to
continue the forwarding to their yahoo.com accounts, they'd need to add spa=
m
filtering to their accounts here so that the crap is not forwarded,
resulting in the email delays for all customers. Works for some and
generated more revenue.... ;-)
Chris
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