[103395] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Tomas L. Byrnes)
Fri Mar 28 13:08:50 2008
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:04:25 -0700
In-Reply-To: <28685b550803280912q73839f8bo16b35909248df4c7@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net>
To: "Ray Demain" <raydemain@gmail.com>, <nanog@merit.edu>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C890F5.C6C9F31D
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What's more funny is that googling "Ray Demain" only brings up lots of
posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data.
=20
What's your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who funds that company?
=20
Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and conspiracy, be up front
about who you are, what you're about, and what you plan on doing with
the data.
=20
=20
________________________________
From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On
Behalf Of Ray Demain
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 AM
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey
=09
=09
Bill,
=09
Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group
who funded Paxfire?
=09
www.minorventures.com
=09
OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the
other, right?
=09
Ray
=09
=09
=09
=09
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf@mu.org>
wrote:
=09
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
=09
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin
Hannigan wrote:
> > I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and
the crew @ OpenDNS make
> > the money that is to be made off this. He's doing
good while doing well.
>
> Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The
problem with
> that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking,
it was that it's
> a marketing missive and inconsistent with community
norms, IMHO. That
> doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly
doesn't mean it's ok
> for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one
unknown not to.
> Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data
creates
> unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.
=09
=09
now that our name has been brought into this, i think
it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's
resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end
result of what
our resolvers discover.
=09
at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page
w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the
record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return
NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix,
etc.
=09
now, on to what we do or could do with that data:
=09
we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do
we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS
company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that
failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising
partner.
=09
they get that data after we've transformed the original
request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return
appropriate and
relevant ads.
=09
so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any
other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew
that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get
NXDOMAIN.
that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our
service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than
i can.
=09
> What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not
all of the good
> guys are actually good guys in that respect.
=09
=09
http://www.opendns.com/privacy/
=09
it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to
employment.
=09
-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering
=09
p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the
shameless, shameless
plug: <peering@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.
=09
=09
=09
=09
------_=_NextPart_001_01C890F5.C6C9F31D
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>What's more funny is that googling "Ray Demain" =
only brings=20
up lots of posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>What's your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who =
funds that=20
company?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and =
conspiracy,=20
be up front about who you are, what you're about, and what you plan on =
doing=20
with the data.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D616510217-28032008><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-nanog@merit.edu=20
[mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ray =
Demain<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
nanog@merit.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for=20
survey<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Bill,<BR><BR>Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded =
by the=20
same group who funded Paxfire?<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.minorventures.com">www.minorventures.com</A><BR><BR>Op=
enDNS=20
can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other,=20
right?<BR><BR>Ray<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill =
fumerola <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:billf@mu.org">billf@mu.org</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>[=20
disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]<BR>
<DIV class=3DIh2E3d><BR>On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, =
Martin=20
Hannigan wrote:<BR>> > I think it's best that we let =
David=20
Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make<BR>> > the money =
that is to=20
be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.<BR>><BR>> =
Why=20
shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem =
with<BR>> that=20
post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that =
it's<BR>> a=20
marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. =
That<BR>>=20
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's=20
ok<BR>> for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one =
unknown not=20
to.<BR>> Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data=20
creates<BR>> unfairness in the system and it should be all or=20
none.<BR><BR></DIV>now that our name has been brought into this, i =
think=20
it's only fair to<BR>say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a =
user's=20
resolver asks our<BR>recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is =
the end=20
result of what<BR>our resolvers discover.<BR><BR>at that point, we=20
optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results<BR>and ads =
and all=20
that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed.<BR>note =
the=20
optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you =
can<BR>configure=20
this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.<BR><BR>now, on =
to what=20
we do or could do with that data:<BR><BR>we do not sell and have =
never sold=20
NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register<BR>domains based on NXDOMAIN =
information.=20
the non-OpenDNS company who sees<BR>the original request that =
produced the=20
NXDOMAIN that failed (which may<BR>or may not even be a valid =
hostname) is=20
our advertising partner.<BR><BR>they get that data after we've =
transformed=20
the original request into<BR>their API to send to them as keywords =
so they=20
may return appropriate and<BR>relevant ads.<BR><BR>so, to =
recap:<BR>nope, we=20
don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data =
either.<BR>yes, some=20
revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.<BR>yes, =
you can=20
even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.<BR> that means =
your=20
typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.<BR>yes, you =
opt-in to=20
our service in the first place.<BR>yes, we have a privacy policy =
that says=20
this better than i can.<BR>
<DIV class=3DIh2E3d><BR>> What you really want to look at is =
privacy=20
policy. Not all of the good<BR>> guys are actually good guys in =
that=20
respect.<BR><BR></DIV><A href=3D"http://www.opendns.com/privacy/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.opendns.com/privacy/</A><BR><BR>it looks =
pretty=20
good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.<BR><BR>-- billf =
>at< <A href=3D"http://opendns.com" =
target=3D_blank>opendns.com</A> //=20
opendns network engineering<BR><BR>p.s. since i rarely if ever post, =
i have=20
to make the shameless, shameless<BR> plug: <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:peering@opendns.com">peering@opendns.com</A>>. =
we're in=20
peeringdb =
too.<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C890F5.C6C9F31D--
