[100062] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: How to Handle ISPs Who Turn a Blind Eye to Criminal Activity?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Raymond Macharia)
Mon Oct 15 05:26:31 2007
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:26:43 +0300
From: Raymond Macharia <raymond@accesskenya.com>
To: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes <nanog@merit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710141637190.16779@jp-gp.vsi.nl>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Hi
first of all I kinda picked the thread mid stream so apologies if what
is here has been dealt with by others
As an ISP if I receive a complaint of what may be illegal activity
coming from a customer on my network I can respond to the complaint
and say I will look into it but what action do I take.
if "someone on the internet" is the complainant, do I have the right to
ask for evidence of the said illegal activity ( I am not in law enforcement)
Or do I forward the complaint to the "relevant authorities" , Cyber
crime teams too busy dealing with the good old crimes of drugs,
terrorism etc but using the internet to do their sleuthing and then
leave it at that and until the "relevant authorities" come back to me do
I leave the situation as is and does that mean I am turning a blind eye?
assuming of course that I have taken the necessary measures of
"cleaning out" malicious stuff, spam malware etc.
On the other hand there is the issue of being what may be called
responsible "cyber citizen" and do the needful and terminate the client
if the illegal activity does not stop.
There is also the issue that many ISPs networks cross geographic
boundaries with different legislation so if complainant in country A
says that ISP has customer (in country B) carrying on illegal activity,
ISP may contact customer in country B and tell them the same but if in
country B that activity is deemed "normal" how does the ISP proceed?
Terminating that client would amount to breach of contract in country B
and ISP may end being sued by client in Country B.
Raymond Macharia
JP Velders wrote:
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>> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:23:15 GMT
>> From: Paul Ferguson <fergdawg@netzero.net>
>> Subject: Re: How to Handle ISPs Who Turn a Blind Eye to Criminal Activity?
>>
>
>
>> [ ... ]
>> Sometimes I think to myself that "...ISPs have Terms of Service and
>> Acceptable Use Policies, so they have the scope and tools they need
>> to boot a 'customer" who break the rules."
>>
>
>
>> But all too often, it would appear, the potential loss of revenue
>> seems to win out over enforcing those policies.
>>
>
> This is something most CSIRTs/CERTs/Abuse/Security people run into. At
> some point they will have an issue with an entity they're providing
> service to that management will veto. In most cases having a good chat
> with management about it, before they're sweet-talked too much by the
> other side helps getting your point across, or - in business terms -
> makes it managements responsability. I've seen various scenarios
> played out like that, and others where the "license to disconnect" was
> squarely backed by management.
>
>
>> And as you say, if the ISP boots them, they just set up shop elsewhere.
>>
>
> Although I try to educate, this is a matter of life on the Internet.
>
>
>> So, back to my original question: If you alert an ISP that "bad and
>> possibly criminal" activity is taking place by one of their customer,
>> and they do not take corrective action (even after a year), what do
>> you do?
>>
>
> Well, depends on the level of information and your contacts in the
> operational / security field. Being a member of an NREN CSIRT I can
> either directly or indirectly participate in local, regional and
> worldwide bodies where people "like us" come together. How that plays
> out, or how you *want* that to play out, is something you cannot
> predict. But sometimes other people will have advise about whom to
> contact within Law Enforcement, other people will chime in, other
> people have direct contact with clueful people etc.
>
> But first and foremost; you try to protect my constituents.
> (through technical, legal, procedural etc. means)
>
> Kind regards,
> JP Velders
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