[486] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: in defense of affirmative action
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard J. Barbalace)
Thu May 3 10:31:16 2001
Message-Id: <200105031428.KAA00582@starbase.mit.edu>
To: Thomas G Cadwell <tcadwell@MIT.EDU>
Cc: mit-talk@MIT.EDU
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 03 May 2001 02:37:27 -0400.
<200105030637.CAA23445@department-of-alchemy.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:28:41 -0400
From: "Richard J. Barbalace" <rjbarbal@MIT.EDU>
Thomas Cadwell writes:
> I really have trouble with this notion that large-scale public-policy of
> any sort, govt or not, is at all effective. Change comes at an individual
> level.
Correct. Minority individuals have no opportunity to effect change
and majority individuals have no opportunity to experience minorities
if minorities are absent from a population. One way affirmative
action programs help, by your own argument, is simply by allowing
individuals to have experiences together and influence each other.
> Thirdly, I think it is rediculous to think that aff action is actually going
> to work (or is working). Many immigrant populations (irish, italian) have
> come into this country, faced FAR worse discrimination than hispanics and
> blacks do today, or did in the 60s, and are now very prosperous. Consider
> much of this happened in the late 1800s and early 1900s. They were pretty
> well integrated into the culture and prosperous by the 50s (any of you
> history people want to clarify this one a bit?). America has a long history
> of groups of people with no skills, no money, no knowledge becoming very
> successful.
As an Irish/Italian/etc. myself, I have to say that's a lovely, but
provably wrong, argument. If this were true, then blacks would be
extremely prosperous, since they've been in this country (and even
free) since long before the immigrations you refer. Clearly a couple
hundred years of slavery have set them back. If anything, the current
lot of blacks in America shows that they need continued support.
I'm not sure why some people on this list are so concerned with AA in
admissions. Being admitted to MIT is not an end, it's not all you
need to succeed here, and it's not going to prevent someone more
deserving from getting in. If you (minority or not) fail out and
leave, someone else will transfer in to take your place. AA only
presents an opportunity to start; it doesn't present anything more
than that.
+ Richard
