[400] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: WARNING: May be controversial
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Prez H. Cannady)
Tue May 1 08:15:52 2001
Message-Id: <200105011215.IAA11436@melbourne-city-street.mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 08:15:15 -0400
To: Daniar Hussain <dhussain@MIT.EDU>, mit-talk@MIT.EDU, spa-discuss@MIT.EDU,
dhussain@MIT.EDU
From: "Prez H. Cannady" <revprez@MIT.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <200104292159.RAA26507@deus.mit.edu>
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At 05:59 PM 4/29/01 , Daniar Hussain wrote
>
>Let me offer my 2 cents, as the expression goes....
Yes, being as young as I am...what it is is what it is. Say
your piece.
>I think everyone would agree that *NOWHERE* in the world today, does
(pure) capitalism exist.
Sure it does, within a fifteen mile radius of my person.
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine, and I'm
gettin mine tonight.
>Its just like (pure) communism
Or (pure) enjoyment, or (pure) cocaine?
>-- it is a fairy-tale creation which has never been achieved anywhere in
the world, and does not exist anywhere in the world.
Actually, it's a sea story. There's a very audible,
"No shit!" and damn near everybody who claims to have
seen it swears by their testimony.
>[This should be a factual claim that only needs factual evidence to back
it up. Please note that I am assuming here that you agree with my fact,
and am offering no factual evidence to back it up, nor pretending to do so.
For lots of factual evidence that this is true, just check any good
historical account.]
That is by far the most creative form of argumentation I've
seen yet. Presume I'm right, and you'll agree with me. Over
such a broad, unqualified assertion, I can't help but feel
proud.
>Given this fact, Most (all?) of the wealth (ie: capital, real-estate,
property, etc.) currently owned in the world was achieved under an
Irrational, Unfaire, and Unequal System of Exploitation.
Irrational: How rational is it to expect an individual to make
a poor rational choice for his person in order to benefit someone
else?
Unfair: Life's unfair. The world isn't a Home Equity Spree
with no down and no interest for ten years. She's a loanshark
looking to rip a piece of your ass off and mount it next
to two generations of Soviet Behinds on her trophy deck.
>So, in order for us to have Pure Capitalism (the prized advocacy of that
Ayn Rand and her followers), we must first have Pure Communism. Thats
right, you read me right.
I'm not so sure. Are you suggesting that pure communism leads
to pure capitalism? Is this another assertion I should
take for granted, or will you prove this? I'm keeping an
eye out, but I'm not hopeful.
>Karl Marx in fact had it backwards -- communism leads to capitalism, not
the other way around -- though his ultimate analysis perhaps may be correct
;-).
"His ultimate analysis perhaps may be correct..." Need we
remember why Bolshevism cropped up in the first place?
>In order to reach a state of Pure Capitalism, we first need to have a
Totalitarian Communist State that comes from a Proletariate Revolution.
After this totalitarian regime has destroyed all vestiges of inherited
capital and status, then the totalitarian state can disband ("the state
shall wither away"), thus leaving a completely Free and Equal Society in
which the Blind Market Forces of Capitalism can finally start For the First
Glorius Time! Only after this occurs, can we hope for a pure capitalist
society.
Wow. Sounds like we forgot some of the "insights" that followed
Karl Marx down that long road to SPLAT--flat on his face. Democratic
centralism in Bolshevik communist theory answered the very fact
that proliteriats were unable to organize sufficiently to
accomplish what Lenin presumed a small number of professional
revolutionaries and Marxist academicians could.
Beyond that, it looks like you've taken a very round about
way of saying if the world suffered from some catastrophically
devaluing event -- say general nuclear war -- the economic
structure of the past would fade away and we'd return to
the good old days of community bartering -- a practice
best left to tribal folk who have less experience ten miles
from their villages than most Kentuckyans out of their
home counties.
Capitalism does not thrive, as the Objectivists believe,
on the human need to survive -- as in the scenario you
propose. Capitalism is driven by the human desire to
acquire even more goods and services for his personal or
affiliates' use. The drive to consume limited resources
under the conditions of pure capitalism drives competition
to such an extreme level that neither monopolies on political
and economic structures by either the elite or the proletariat
will significantly moderate it. On the contrary, anarchy
and communism promote a needs based model for personal
and social acquistion of desired material; in an ideal anarchal
system their are very few safety nets for those who
do not hoards. In a communist society, hoarding is a
quality of the state, which then doles its blessing to
the proletariat on their "behalf."
>So, my dear Objectivists, if you want to see the kind of society you are
envisioning, I suggest you join the American Communist Party (yes, it still
exists). After they stage a successful coup of the American government,
destroy all current world civilization, and create a New World Order --
then, finally, you may re-join the Objectivist-Libertarian Party, and
establish a Neo-New-World-Order based on Rational Market Allocation of
Capital.
The ability to string big words together neither makes
this liberal nonsense about communism as a necessary
path to purer capitalism nor a rational proposal for
redistribution of wealth (which, from a conservative
perspective, is rarely ever rational).
Rev Prez
* * *
Presley H. Cannady, Class of 2002, Electrical Engineering
Acting Chairman, College Republicans
CR Website <http://web.mit.edu/republicans/www/>
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