[369] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: Affirmative Action
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Sourav K. Mandal)
Mon Apr 30 23:33:18 2001
Message-Id: <200105010332.XAA02256@dichotomy.dyn.dhs.org>
From: "Sourav K. Mandal" <Sourav.Mandal@ikaran.com>
Reply-To: "Sourav K. Mandal" <Sourav.Mandal@ikaran.com>
To: mit-talk@mit.edu
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:32:39 -0400
Dear all:
I am responding to this thread in digest format, for brevity.
*******************
"Aimee L Smith <alsmith@MIT.EDU>" wrote:
> Each woman or minority person is
> a unique individual with their own ideas about what it means to be whoever
> they identify themself to be, but statistically, they are more likely to
> accumulate incidents of hostility, exclusion, and discrimination which
> will perpetuate their under-representation. [...]
Allow me to distill your arguments. Say that there is a latent,
irrational bias among "groups of privilege" against "oppressed groups"
(which I haven't seen, as minority myself). Pragmatically, will
affirmative actions programs help change attitudes? Rather than
fostering an appreciation in the value of the individual and
rationality, it creates yet another wrong in an attempt to get things
right. In doing so, many who do not hold such irrational views, will
be harmed. This is a formula for breeding resentment, and thereby, in
a small fraction of people, yet more racism.
> Discrimination against motherhood is a big deal. (My advisor
> "advised" me not to have children while in grad school-- no conflict
> of interest here, no discrimination here...) [...]
Motherhood is time-consuming and expensive; in short, a tremendous
endeavour. Why should any institution have to compromise its bottom
line to support a personal undertaking? Hypothetically, I might get an
invitation to a pro football camp (_purely_ hypothetically!). Would it
be proper of me to demand paid leave? By what right can I ask anything
of my employer if I choose to leave or compromise the work for which I
am paid to do? That would be a theft of time, and equivalently, money.
*****************
"asarahm <asarahm@MIT.EDU>" wrote:
> 1. diversity of thought and experience is a good thing, especially in
> groups that make decisions and policy (one of the reasons everyone
> (including the administration) pushes so hard to have undergraduates
> on institute committees).
What does a diversity in _thought_ have to do with race?
> those of us who have been the only one of their kind in a meeting/
> class/social situation (where "kind" could be race, gender, economic
> background, dorm, department, etc) know how strange you can feel..
I myself have encountered some racism, nothing to get worked up about.
Racists are idiots, and I will defend myself from them as necessary and
deride them as it suits me. However, whatever misfortune I have
encountered in my life does not _entitle_ me to anything. Justice, and
injustice, start with individuals, not with groups; and, the only
remedy for irrational thoughts and evil motives are rational ideas and
a continuing adherence to justice for the individual. Punishing groups
of good people for the sins of certain individuals is wrong.
That said, I've always felt less comfortable among my own racial peer
group than among any other group, because there is a pressure to
conform above and beyond ethics and personal interests. It's sad how
many times other Indian folks, young and old alike, have chastised me
for enjoying my filet mignon, showing romantic interest in non-Indian
women, disliking the crappy Indian "pop" music and Bollywood movies,
and for not pursuing medicine as career. The last one makes me laugh
to no end ...
*****************
"Anne Hunter <anneh@eecs.mit.edu>" wrote:
> What leads any of you to believe that MIT accepts *any* underqualified
> students?
College admissions is a competitive process, not an approval-based one.
Given the process Jimmy the "crackpot status quo defender" described,
there _is_ a discernable gradient all the way down to 6000, or however
many acceptances go out. Is Jimmy's characterization of the process
incorrect? Even if so, I would prefer a random drawing to prevent the
entry of any biases.
> I've been at MIT for 27 years, and I can tell you that the students
> who don't do well here are those who have personal problems that
> prevent them from performing to their ability. I've only seen a
> couple of students whom I believe really didn't have the ability to
> succeed here.
While I have only been a physics tutor on and off for two years, sadly
I must disagree. Many of my charges simply did not have the stuff. (I
grant that this is a small minority, but significantly more than a
handful.) If it's a problem in preparation, MIT is not the place to
tackle it because it is:
* ineffective
* harmful to other students
* frustrating for the students in question, who are overwhelmed.
BTW, thank you, Ms. Hunter, for taking the time to write.
****************
Cheers,
Sourav
------------------------------------------------------------
Sourav K. Mandal
Sourav.Mandal@ikaran.com
http://www.ikaran.com/Sourav.Mandal/
