[6811] in APO Printshop
Re: General Inquiry - Printing Invitations
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Benazeer Noorani)
Wed Dec 3 12:53:18 2014
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1412030112180.1727@buzzword-bingo.mit.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:53:16 -0500
From: Benazeer Noorani <benazeer@gmail.com>
To: "Leonard H Tower Jr." <tower@alum.mit.edu>
Cc: Joseph Kesselman <keshlam.cat.nospam@verizon.net>,
APO Press <apo-printshop@mit.edu>
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Nate: I can't do your qualifying run, but I am happy to be on hand to
advise for runs after you're qualified.
And since my name was brought up with regard to the feasibility of this
job, I'd like to clarify what I'm doing and thinking:
I am mostly printing with type, not plates.
I believed the platen needed leveling because after doing about twenty
setups I realized I was consistently needing to grade my differential
bedding in the same direction, no matter where in the chase I locked up my
form or how I arranged the furniture. Measuring the distance between the
platen and the chase bed at several points confirmed my suspicions that the
platen is not level. HOWEVER, after talking to several other journeymen and
spending many hours examining the platen adjustment bolts and studying user
manuals, I do not think I am the right person to make the adjustment. I'm
also not convinced the surface of the platen is dead flat, and if it's not,
no amount of adjusting the leveling bolts will help.
The platen not being level makes it harder to setup and print a good
impression, but not impossible.
I have successfully printed an 8.5x11 plate this year. It was a pain in the
ass, and took a ton of fussing with roller height, inking, and differential
bedding to get a good impression, and I definitely beat up the plate a lot
by using a much deeper impression than I would ever dream of using with
metal type, but I managed to pull 400 prints that I was happy with. There's
a sample (a misprint) in the sample box.
The folks at Boxcar Press recommend never trying to print hairlines finer
than .35pt or dots smaller than 1.25pt in diameter with a photopolymer
plate. I don't have my plate in front of me right now, but I believe the
finest line I printed was 1.75pt, and it was a challenge.This rules out a
lot of the flourish-y fonts that people tend to like for wedding
invitations.
YiLFS
Benazeer
On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Leonard H Tower Jr. <tower@alum.mit.edu>
wrote:
> Molly:
>
> We might be able to sell them the cards and envelopes they need.
> If they like what we have in inventory.
> ======================================================================
>
> Keshlam:
>
> I wanted more info from the potential customer first, but:
> ======================================================================
>
> All:
>
> * Experimenting would be a good idea, if someone wants to.
>
> * I really prefer to put time into improving the shop, than being
> on-hand to advise whomever tries this.
>
> So if Keshlam. or another experienced journeyman wants to help
> Nathan et al get this done, PLEASE step up.
>
> * Benazeer doesn't believe she can get quality for the plates she
> wants to print for her book project without leveling the platen.
> I'm not sure why. Around the size of the certificate border. Not
> sure if it's one page, or a double page.
>
> Been a while since anyone has done a sizable plate. The platen may
> (or may not) be more out of parallel since then.
>
> * I do not remember anyone getting a halftone to print well on either
> of our presses. Has someone? Details please! (Most of the
> halftones came from The Tech, when they planned to trash them.)
>
> * This wedding couple might be planning to do their plates in plastic.
> Alex had a plastic plate done at the shop in Central Square to do
> the back of the Reg Day Schedule/Rush Promo cards. It had thick
> lines and type, and began to degrade noticeably around a 100
> impressions. (Alex, correct me as needed ; - )
>
> Metal plates would be much better.
>
> * IF they do NOT need these until February, or better yet, March,
> and be willing to pay for the experiments...
>
> Of course, Molly could decide to not charge them for the
> experiments.
>
> IMHO, they should pay for the plates, either way.
>
> * The problem with bleeds is the gauge pins.
>
> If you can resolve that (several ways):
> To handle a bleed, you can put a frisket on the grab bars,
> replacing it as needed.
> If it's a stiff plastic,
> you can clean it.
> Usually wise to make holes where the gauge pins are,
> or go with stacked leads for gauge pins.
>
> yiLFS -len
>
> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 01:01:53 -0500
> From: Joseph Kesselman <keshlam.cat.nospam@verizon.net>
> Cc: apo-printshop@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: General Inquiry - Printing Invitations
>
> On 12/2/2014 11:06 PM, Leonard H Tower Jr. wrote:
> > Even if there are no fine lines,
> > I doubt we can get even impression off a plate that size.
>
> Len *may* be being overcautious.
>
>
> A 5x7 card is not necessarily a 5x7-plus-bleed plate. Border would
> bring it
> down; text (if not printed over/within the plate) might bring it down
> farther. (Actually, I'm not sure how to print a bleed-over-on-all-sides
> plate
> on our press without printing oversized paper and then trimming.)
>
> There's also the question, as Len pointed out, of how much detail is in
> the
> plates these folks want to use. If it's on the order of an ivy border, I
> don't see that as being overly difficult even if one has to do
> micro-adjustments to bedding, run all three rollers, and be
> extra-careful
> with inking. If it's something that requires wide areas of ink,
> halftones,
> and so on it gets more difficult. (CF the challenge of keeping an
> entire page
> of text balanced between under- and over-inked. But "if it happened, it
> ought
> to be possible.")
>
>
>
> We do have some large plates in the shop -- the two-part certificate for
> example, border and sunrise. When I was running the cuts catalog I
> didn't
> attempt to fine-tune the printing thereof so the sample is pretty
> sloppy,
> just enough to show what it is -- and I don't know whether it's damaged
> at
> this point. We also have some fine-detail plates which approach that
> size, eg
> the halftoned photos.
>
> If someone wanted to spend some time experimenting with what we have on
> hand,
> we could get a better idea of what the press is and isn't currently
> capable
> of.
>
>
>
> So depending on what they actually want, when they want it, and how
> much time
> we have to evaluate, this may or may not be out of our current scope. If
> folks are interested, I'd favor responding "maybe" and getting more
> specifics
> about both the job and the state of the press before deciding yea or
> nay.
>
>
> -- Keshlam (who has so far failed to make himself more available, so
> you may
> want to take his blatherings with an appropriate block of salt)
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><br>Nate: I can't do your qua=
lifying run, but I am happy to be on hand to advise for runs after you'=
re qualified. <br><br>And since my name was brought up with regard to the f=
easibility of this job, I'd like to clarify what I'm doing and thin=
king:<br><br></div>I am mostly printing with type, not plates. <br><br>I be=
lieved the platen needed leveling because after doing about twenty setups I=
realized I was consistently needing to grade my differential bedding in th=
e same direction, no matter where in the chase I locked up my form or how I=
arranged the furniture. Measuring the distance between the platen and the =
chase bed at several points confirmed my suspicions that the platen is not =
level. HOWEVER, after talking to several other journeymen and spending many=
hours examining the platen adjustment bolts and studying user manuals, I d=
o not think I am the right person to make the adjustment. I'm also not =
convinced the surface of the platen is dead flat, and if it's not, no a=
mount of adjusting the leveling bolts will help. <br><br></div>The platen n=
ot being level makes it harder to setup and print a good impression, but no=
t impossible. <br><br></div>I have successfully printed an 8.5x11 plate thi=
s year. It was a pain in the ass, and took a ton of fussing with roller hei=
ght, inking, and differential bedding to get a good impression, and I defin=
itely beat up the plate a lot by using a much deeper impression than I woul=
d ever dream of using with metal type, but I managed to pull 400 prints tha=
t I was happy with. There's a sample (a misprint) in the sample box. <b=
r><br></div>The folks at Boxcar Press recommend never trying to print hairl=
ines finer than .35pt or dots smaller than 1.25pt in diameter with a photop=
olymer plate. I don't have my plate in front of me right now, but I bel=
ieve the finest line I printed was 1.75pt, and it was a challenge.This rule=
s out a lot of the flourish-y fonts that people tend to like for wedding in=
vitations. <br></div><div><br><br></div><div>YiLFS<br><br></div><div>Benaze=
er<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Leonard H Tower Jr. <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
<a href=3D"mailto:tower@alum.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">tower@alum.mit.edu<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Molly:<br>
<br>
We might be able to sell them the cards and envelopes they need.<br>
If they like what we have in inventory.<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
Keshlam:<br>
<br>
I wanted more info from the potential customer first, but:<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
All:<br>
<br>
* Experimenting would be a good idea, if someone wants to.<br>
<br>
* I really prefer to put time into improving the shop, than being<br>
=C2=A0 on-hand to advise whomever tries this.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 So if Keshlam. or another experienced journeyman wants to help<br>
=C2=A0 Nathan et al get this done, PLEASE step up.<br>
<br>
* Benazeer doesn't believe she can get quality for the plates she<br>
=C2=A0 wants to print for her book project without leveling the platen.<br>
=C2=A0 I'm not sure why.=C2=A0 Around the size of the certificate borde=
r.=C2=A0 Not<br>
=C2=A0 sure if it's one page, or a double page.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Been a while since anyone has done a sizable plate.=C2=A0 The platen=
may<br>
=C2=A0 (or may not) be more out of parallel since then.<br>
<br>
* I do not remember anyone getting a halftone to print well on either<br>
=C2=A0 of our presses.=C2=A0 Has someone?=C2=A0 Details please!=C2=A0 (Most=
of the<br>
=C2=A0 halftones came from The Tech, when they planned to trash them.)<br>
<br>
* This wedding couple might be planning to do their plates in plastic.<br>
=C2=A0 Alex had a plastic plate done at the shop in Central Square to do<br=
>
=C2=A0 the back of the Reg Day Schedule/Rush Promo cards.=C2=A0 It had thic=
k<br>
=C2=A0 lines and type, and began to degrade noticeably around a 100<br>
=C2=A0 impressions. (Alex, correct me as needed ; - )<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Metal plates would be much better.<br>
<br>
* IF they do NOT need these until February, or better yet, March,<br>
=C2=A0 and be willing to pay for the experiments...<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Of course, Molly could decide to not charge them for the<br>
=C2=A0 experiments.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 IMHO, they should pay for the plates, either way.<br>
<br>
* The problem with bleeds is the gauge pins.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 If you can resolve that (several ways):<br>
=C2=A0 To handle a bleed, you can put a frisket on the grab bars,<br>
=C2=A0 replacing it as needed.<br>
=C2=A0 If it's a stiff plastic,<br>
=C2=A0 you can clean it.<br>
=C2=A0 Usually wise to make holes where the gauge pins are,<br>
=C2=A0 or go with stacked leads for gauge pins.<br>
<br>
yiLFS -len<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 01:01:53 -0500<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0From: Joseph Kesselman <<a href=3D"mailto:keshlam.cat.nospa=
m@verizon.net">keshlam.cat.nospam@verizon.net</a>><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:apo-printshop@mit.edu">apo-printshop@mit=
.edu</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: General Inquiry - Printing Invitations<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0On 12/2/2014 11:06 PM, Leonard H Tower Jr. wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0> Even if there are no fine lines,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0> I doubt we can get even impression off a plate that size.=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Len *may* be being overcautious.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A 5x7 card is not necessarily a 5x7-plus-bleed plate. Border w=
ould bring it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0down; text (if not printed over/within the plate) might bring =
it down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0farther. (Actually, I'm not sure how to print a bleed-over=
-on-all-sides plate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0on our press without printing oversized paper and then trimmin=
g.)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0There's also the question, as Len pointed out, of how much=
detail is in the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0plates these folks want to use. If it's on the order of an=
ivy border, I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0don't see that as being overly difficult even if one has t=
o do<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0micro-adjustments to bedding, run all three rollers, and be ex=
tra-careful<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with inking. If it's something that requires wide areas of=
ink, halftones,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and so on it gets more difficult. (CF the challenge of keeping=
an entire page<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of text balanced between under- and over-inked. But "if i=
t happened, it ought<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to be possible.")<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0We do have some large plates in the shop -- the two-part certi=
ficate for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0example, border and sunrise. When I was running the cuts catal=
og I didn't<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attempt to fine-tune the printing thereof so the sample is pre=
tty sloppy,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0just enough to show what it is -- and I don't know whether=
it's damaged at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this point. We also have some fine-detail plates which approac=
h that size, eg<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the halftoned photos.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If someone wanted to spend some time experimenting with what w=
e have on hand,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0we could get a better idea of what the press is and isn't =
currently capable<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0So depending on what they actually want, when they want it, an=
d how much time<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0we have to evaluate, this may or may not be out of our current=
scope. If<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0folks are interested, I'd favor responding "maybe&quo=
t; and getting more specifics<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0about both the job and the state of the press before deciding =
yea or nay.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0-- Keshlam (who has so far failed to make himself more availab=
le, so you may<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0want to take his blatherings with an appropriate block of salt=
)<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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