[6262] in APO Printshop
Re: Re: Vice on table
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (PiperXP@gmail.com)
Fri Jan 28 01:00:12 2011
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101272332110.31794@buzzword-bingo.mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 06:00:06 +0000
From: PiperXP@gmail.com
To: "Leonard H Tower Jr." <tower@alum.mit.edu>
Cc: Catherine Olsson <catherio@mit.edu>,
Charley Hamilton <charley.hamilton@gmail.com>,
Mitchell E Berger <mitchb@mit.edu>, apo-printshop@mit.edu,
rhkeeler@mit.edu, "apo-president@mit.edu" <apo-president@mit.edu>
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Charley, could you elaborate on what you meant about mounting the vice to
the wall? If it's intended to be mounted with a table, I misunderstood :)
> The Press Shop needs are meet by the current vise and table.
Sure, but the actives' needs aren't being met. We want a clean and
easy-to-navigate office, and the current vise table gets in the way. It
appears to me that Catherine&co are trying very hard to reach a compromise,
and would appreciate flexibility from the print shop with regard to space
that is not dedicated to it.
On Jan 28, 2011 12:18am, "Leonard H Tower Jr." <tower@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 01:14:50 -0500
> From: Catherine Olsson catherio@MIT.EDU>
> Thanks so much for the suggestion, Charley! I'm glad you have the
> technical
> know-how to understand what would be involved - I sure don't =).
> I'm *sure* it will be easier to find a bit of space for a wall-mounted
> vice
> than for an entire waist-height table, and there will be more layout
> freedom
> for future rearrangements too. Presshop, would this be feasible for your
> needs?
> What Charley has in mind is about the same size and height as the
> current table. You need a certain amount of working space to use a
> vice. An ideal workbench would be a good bit longer.
> He's concerned about use of the vise being safer. What he proposed
> will also make for a vise that is easier to use. So, Charley is
> offering to design two things:
> * A super stiff, super strong workbench for a vice. To do this on
> a narrow base, or without floor contact (hanging the workbench on the
> wall as a cantilever) would probably add a lot to the cost, and add an
> large multiplier to the forces exerted on the wall.
> * a super strong way to attach this workbench to one of the
> APOffice walls, so it can't be tipped over, or moved.
> Ataching the workbench to the wall, requires information from the
> Department of Facilities (Charley knew it as 'Physical Plant') on how
> the walls are constructed, and exactly what kind of masonry they are.
> Facilities could well want approval from the CAC. Facilities might
> not want the walls to have this much force exerted on them. They have
> a legitimate concern that the walls not be damaged or worse fail.
> They might not want to let the information off campus, or accept a
> design by Charley.
> Note that the forces involved are different and significantly more
> intense, than mounting a storage shelf on a wall.
> If AX wants to go to this expense, it might make sense to buy a vice
> that is larger, has more features, is easier to use, etc.
> IMHO, the minuses outweigh the pluses here (if the actives want me to
> expand on that please ask), but that's a decision for the actives to
> make.
> The Press Shop needs are meet by the current vise and table.
> yiLFS -len
> PS: A minus? Having something fixed to a wall constrains APOffice
> reorgs. They are hard to move. How might the APOffice work better if
> the largest bulletin board or the vertical floor to ceiling chalk
> board were moved, or gone?
> On 01/26/2011 10:59 PM, Charley Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Mitchell E Bergermitchb@mit.edu>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Folding table we can store in the printshop, maybe near the Dexion's
> > > usual home? That would be a little less high than the existing
> > > table, but mostly satisfies the height need. It satisfies the
> > > working room need because you can take it out and place it wherever
> > > you want to work. It does not satisfy the thickness or sturdiness
> > > goals, but we could perhaps get an additional piece of wood about
> > > the same dimension as the folding table's top, stored in the same
> > > place, that can be put on top of it when you want to use the vice
> > > to thicken and reinforce it.
> > >
> > > This table could potentially find other uses, too - maybe for
> > > ironing silkscreened shirts in the office.
> > >
> > > Mitch
> >
> > Regarding mounting of bench vises, I have a 6" jaw vise mounted in my
> > garage on a home-built workbench. The workbench weighs in excess of
> > 600# (including all of the misc tools inside) and I still manage to
> > tip it occasionally when working with the vise. Any "tabletop"
> > solution would need to have adequate mass to resist uplift/overturning
> > while using the vise.
> >
> > Is there a location in the APOffice where the vise could be mounted to
> > a wall? How averse are folks to discussing placement of a 2-3 epoxy
> > anchors into the CMU walls with Phys Plant? I can probably work up a
> > design (being an structural engineer comes in handy that way) that
> > could resist the necessary design forces if the Press Shop and Exec
> > Comm can agree on a home.
> >
> > If the masonry wall is grouted (Phys Plant's structural drawings and a
> > 1C or Phys Plant engineer to read them could answer this), it could
> > even be done with something like a Simpson Titen HD anchor. That
> > would only require drilling the holes in the masonry, and driving the
> > screw anchor in place. APO could rent the hardware to do the install
> > (Hilti rotary hammer drill and an impact driver) from Home Depot's
> > rental department, and the whole thing would be removable (unlike an
> > epoxy anchor, which would need to be cut off flush) if the APOffice
> > ever moves.
> >
> > If this is of interest, and somebody can give me a description of the
> > vise and what it is used for, I could back-of-the envelope a
> > wall-mounted solution that APO could price. That way, Exec Comm and
> > the Press Shop could consider cost in their decision.
> >
> >
> > YiLFS,
> >
> > Charley
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Charley, could you elaborate on what you meant about mounting the vice to t=
he wall? If it's intended to be mounted with a table, I misunderstood =
:)<br /><br />> The Press Shop needs are meet by the current vise and ta=
ble.<br /><br />Sure, but the actives' needs aren't being met. We =
want a clean and easy-to-navigate office, and the current vise table gets i=
n the way. It appears to me that Catherine&co are trying very hard to reac=
h a compromise, and would appreciate flexibility from the print shop with r=
egard to space that is not dedicated to it.<br /><br /><br />On Jan 28, 201=
1 12:18am, "Leonard H Tower Jr." <tower@alum.mit.edu> wrote=
:<br />> =A0 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 01:14:50 -0500<br />> <br />>=
=A0 From: Catherine Olsson catherio@MIT.EDU><br />> <br />> <br =
/>> <br />> =A0 Thanks so much for the suggestion, Charley! I'm =
glad you have the technical<br />> <br />> =A0 know-how to understan=
d what would be involved - I sure don't =3D).<br />> <br />> <br =
/>> <br />> =A0 I'm *sure* it will be easier to find a bit of sp=
ace for a wall-mounted vice<br />> <br />> =A0 than for an entire wa=
ist-height table, and there will be more layout freedom<br />> <br />>=
; =A0 for future rearrangements too. Presshop, would this be feasible for =
your<br />> <br />> =A0 needs?<br />> <br />> <br />> <br /=
>> What Charley has in mind is about the same size and height as the<br =
/>> <br />> current table. =A0You need a certain amount of working sp=
ace to use a<br />> <br />> vice. =A0An ideal workbench would be a go=
od bit longer.<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />> He's concerne=
d about use of the vise being safer. =A0What he proposed<br />> <br />&g=
t; will also make for a vise that is easier to use. =A0So, Charley is<br />=
> <br />> offering to design two things:<br />> <br />> <br />&=
gt; <br />> =A0 * A super stiff, super strong workbench for a vice. =A0=
To do this on<br />> <br />> a narrow base, or without floor contact =
(hanging the workbench on the<br />> <br />> wall as a cantilever) wo=
uld probably add a lot to the cost, and add an<br />> <br />> large m=
ultiplier to the forces exerted on the wall.<br />> <br />> <br />>=
; <br />> =A0 * a super strong way to attach this workbench to one of t=
he<br />> <br />> APOffice walls, so it can't be tipped over, or =
moved.<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />> Ataching the workbench to=
the wall, requires information from the<br />> <br />> Department of=
Facilities (Charley knew it as 'Physical Plant') on how<br />> =
<br />> the walls are constructed, and exactly what kind of masonry they=
are.<br />> <br />> Facilities could well want approval from the CAC=
. =A0Facilities might<br />> <br />> not want the walls to have this =
much force exerted on them. =A0They have<br />> <br />> a legitimate =
concern that the walls not be damaged or worse fail.<br />> <br />> T=
hey might not want to let the information off campus, or accept a<br />>=
<br />> design by Charley.<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />> N=
ote that the forces involved are different and significantly more<br />>=
<br />> intense, than mounting a storage shelf on a wall.<br />> <br=
/>> <br />> <br />> If AX wants to go to this expense, it might m=
ake sense to buy a vice<br />> <br />> that is larger, has more featu=
res, is easier to use, etc.<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />> IMHO=
, the minuses outweigh the pluses here (if the actives want me to<br />>=
<br />> expand on that please ask), but that's a decision for the a=
ctives to<br />> <br />> make.<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />=
> The Press Shop needs are meet by the current vise and table.<br />>=
<br />> <br />> <br />> yiLFS -len<br />> <br />> <br />>=
; <br />> PS: A minus? =A0Having something fixed to a wall constrains AP=
Office<br />> <br />> reorgs. =A0They are hard to move. =A0How might =
the APOffice work better if<br />> <br />> the largest bulletin board=
or the vertical floor to ceiling chalk<br />> <br />> board were mov=
ed, or gone?<br />> <br />> <br />> <br />> =A0 On 01/26/2011 =
10:59 PM, Charley Hamilton wrote:<br />> <br />> =A0 > On Tue, Ja=
n 25, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Mitchell E Bergermitchb@mit.edu> =A0wrote:<br />=
> <br />> =A0 > ><br />> <br />> =A0 > > Folding =
table we can store in the printshop, maybe near the Dexion's<br />> =
<br />> =A0 > > usual home? =A0That would be a little less high t=
han the existing<br />> <br />> =A0 > > table, but mostly sati=
sfies the height need. =A0It satisfies the<br />> <br />> =A0 > &=
gt; working room need because you can take it out and place it wherever<br =
/>> <br />> =A0 > > you want to work. =A0It does not satisfy t=
he thickness or sturdiness<br />> <br />> =A0 > > goals, but w=
e could perhaps get an additional piece of wood about<br />> <br />> =
=A0 > > the same dimension as the folding table's top, stored in=
the same<br />> <br />> =A0 > > place, that can be put on top=
of it when you want to use the vice<br />> <br />> =A0 > > to=
thicken and reinforce it.<br />> <br />> =A0 > ><br />> <b=
r />> =A0 > > This table could potentially find other uses, too -=
maybe for<br />> <br />> =A0 > > ironing silkscreened shirts =
in the office.<br />> <br />> =A0 > ><br />> <br />> =
=A0 > > Mitch<br />> <br />> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =
=A0 > Regarding mounting of bench vises, I have a 6" jaw vise mount=
ed in my<br />> <br />> =A0 > garage on a home-built workbench. =
=A0The workbench weighs in excess of<br />> <br />> =A0 > 600# (i=
ncluding all of the misc tools inside) and I still manage to<br />> <br =
/>> =A0 > tip it occasionally when working with the vise. =A0Any &qu=
ot;tabletop"<br />> <br />> =A0 > solution would need to hav=
e adequate mass to resist uplift/overturning<br />> <br />> =A0 >=
while using the vise.<br />> <br />> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =
=A0 > Is there a location in the APOffice where the vise could be mount=
ed to<br />> <br />> =A0 > a wall? =A0How averse are folks to dis=
cussing placement of a 2-3 =A0epoxy<br />> <br />> =A0 > anchors =
into the CMU walls with Phys Plant? =A0I can probably work up a<br />> <=
br />> =A0 > design (being an structural engineer comes in handy tha=
t way) that<br />> <br />> =A0 > could resist the necessary desig=
n forces if the Press Shop and Exec<br />> <br />> =A0 > Comm can=
agree on a home.<br />> <br />> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =A0 =
> If the masonry wall is grouted (Phys Plant's structural drawings a=
nd a<br />> <br />> =A0 > 1C or Phys Plant engineer to read them =
could answer this), it could<br />> <br />> =A0 > even be done wi=
th something like a Simpson Titen HD anchor. =A0That<br />> <br />> =
=A0 > would only require drilling the holes in the masonry, and driving =
the<br />> <br />> =A0 > screw anchor in place. =A0APO could rent=
the hardware to do the install<br />> <br />> =A0 > (Hilti rotar=
y hammer drill and an impact driver) from Home Depot's<br />> <br />=
> =A0 > rental department, and the whole thing would be removable (u=
nlike an<br />> <br />> =A0 > epoxy anchor, which would need to b=
e cut off flush) if the APOffice<br />> <br />> =A0 > ever moves.=
<br />> <br />> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =A0 > If this is o=
f interest, and somebody can give me a description of the<br />> <br />&=
gt; =A0 > vise and what it is used for, I could back-of-the envelope a<=
br />> <br />> =A0 > wall-mounted solution that APO could price. =
=A0That way, Exec Comm and<br />> <br />> =A0 > the Press Shop co=
uld consider cost in their decision.<br />> <br />> =A0 ><br />&g=
t; <br />> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =A0 > YiLFS,<br />> <br=
/>> =A0 ><br />> <br />> =A0 > Charley<br />> <br />&g=
t; <br />> <br />> <br />>
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