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daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Administrator_at_Coherent-Corp1@un)
Tue Nov 28 21:23:20 1995

From: Administrator_at_Coherent-Corp1@unixgate.cohr.com
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 13:38:21 PST
To: java-interest@java.sun.com

java-interest-digest      Monday, 27 November 1995      Volume 01 : Number 274

In this issue:

  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme 
  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme
  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme 
  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme
  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme
  Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme
  Mac availability
  Reshaping panels
  'JavaBASIC' update
  Oops, sorry, wrong version
  Java locale.h?
  Re: Reshaping panels
  Language extension proposal
  Re:- Weather service (where is it).
  Re: Java Customer Presentation Material.
  Re: Re[2]: RFC "Off the Web Java"
  Re: Re:- Weather service (where is it).
  Win 95 Help
  Structure in Java
  Re: Connecting to a server
  Re: Connecting to a server
  Re: Odd timing on Turkey Day
  Re: Mac availability

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Aleph One <aleph1@dfw.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 14:14:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme 

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Per Danvind wrote:

> Excuse me for disturbing your discussion, but here goes...
[good discussion cut]
> This is not wrong. Class L can't know that there now is a new
> method in class C. Think about it. If you add a method to a class
> C, wouldn't it be strange if classes using that class, suddenly
> started calling this new method, without even being recompiled!?

Nope. Remember that linking is done at run time. When you run class L
without recompiling it will load class C (the new class C). See that
there is a method that matches the calling method signature and use that
thus overloading equal.

> --
> Per
> 
> 
> 
> -
> This message was sent to the java-interest mailing list
> Info: send 'help' to java-interest-request@java.sun.com
> 

Aleph One / aleph1@dfw.net
http://underground.org/
KeyID 1024/948FD6B5 
Fingerprint EE C9 E8 AA CB AF 09 61  8C 39 EA 47 A8 6A B8 01 


------------------------------

From: david@longview.com (David Griswold)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 95 13:57:43 PST
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme

Jim Graham wrote:

>Hi Dave,
>
>You keep claiming to have an overriding case and an overloading case to
>this problem, whereas what you are really trying to make is a case
>about how return types would cause a method override to fail and
>another case about how a different argument type would cause a method
>override to fail.  When you change an argument type you are not        <<<<**
>overriding but overloading and you cannot expect the new method to
>automatically override calls to the original method.  Read further for
>more detail:

There appears to be a nearly 100% failure to communicate going on here.
If you look at the emphasis I have added above, you once again claim that I
am trying to override by changing argument types. I am not claiming that,
I never did claim that, and the academics who have followed this closely have
had no problems whatsoever understanding my point, nor its importance.
I appreciate your attempt to address my concerns, however, I will not discuss
this issue further with you.

- -Dave


------------------------------

From: david@longview.com (David Griswold)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 95 13:59:01 PST
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme 

You wrote:
> ... This is not wrong. Class L can't know that there now is a new
>method in class C. Think about it. If you add a method to a class
>C, wouldn't it be strange if classes using that class, suddenly
>started calling this new method, without even being recompiled!?

You are right.  It would be strange.  That is my point.
Given your understanding of this issue, don't you find it even
stranger that Sun claims in the Java white paper
that Java programs *don't* have to be recompiled when the libraries
they use change?  You, and I, and many other people can see from
my example, and your example above, that they do indeed need
to be recompiled.  That is all I am trying to
say.

- -Dave


------------------------------

From: Pat Niemeyer <pat@icon-stl.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 16:01:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Jim Graham wrote:

>  class Object {
>   public void equals(Object obj);
>  }
>  class C /* implicitly extends Object */ {
>   public void equals(C obj);
>  }
> 
> The C.equals method does not override the Object.equals method.  It
> overloads the method and it is essentially a distinguishable, or new,
> method that must be specifically chosen at compile time.  If the
> argument had been declared as type Object, then it would override the
> first method and would automatically be chosen whenever the original
> equals(Object) method was invoked on an object of type C.
 
Ah, that statement cleared up some things that I hadn't thought through
properly before:

So, over-ridden methods are found dynamically at run-time, but over-loaded
methods have to be known to the calling class at compile time to be found.

Presumeably this is because the method signature is stored in the calling 
class and the run-time tries to hunt for a match in the target class. (?)

I guess the latter type - doing runtime sub-type matching would be
really expensive...


Pat

------------------------------

From: flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham)
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 15:20:07 -0800
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme

I wrote:
> >You keep claiming to have an overriding case and an overloading case to
> >this problem, whereas what you are really trying to make is a case
> >about how return types would cause a method override to fail and
> >another case about how a different argument type would cause a method
> >override to fail.  When you change an argument type you are not      <<<<**
> >overriding but overloading and you cannot expect the new method to
> >automatically override calls to the original method.  Read further for
> >more detail:

Dave wrote:
> There appears to be a nearly 100% failure to communicate going on here.
> If you look at the emphasis I have added above, you once again claim that I
> am trying to override by changing argument types.

Since that is not what I said above and you yourself quoted me, I agree
that there is a failure to communicate.  Changing an argument type results
in overloading.  That much we agree on.

Expecting the new method with different argument types to automatically
catch calls to a formerly inherited call is, I guess, where the
terminology gets tricky.  I would call that concept an "expectation of
overriding behavior" whereas others apparently simply refer to this as
"dynamic run-time evaluation of the choice of overloaded methods".

Either way, the facts are that Java does not automatically switch to a
new overloaded call at run-time.  That is the definition of the language.
There is no fundamental flaw in the distribution scheme, there is just
a definition of method dispatch behavior that you don't agree with.  The
example you gave has a very simple work-around which I've detailed
several times (i.e. duplicate the method signature exactly and perform
your own dynamic run-time type checking in that overriding method).

> I never did claim that, and the academics who have followed this closely have
> had no problems whatsoever understanding my point, nor its importance.

I understand what you want and that you feel it is important, but you
don't seem to believe that the language is perfectly well defined and
useable without the behavior that you seem to feel is supposed to
be there.  If that behavior was absolutely fundamentally necessary then,
yes, I would agree that there was a fundamental flaw in our distribution
scheme, but the existing definition of the language is perfectly viable
and the behavior you wish can be easily achieved using the Java language
as defined per my work-around.  You have yet to address in any way
how that work-around fails to meet your needs, but I believe you have
made your point that it failed to meet your up-front expectations.

> I appreciate your attempt to address my concerns, however, I will not discuss
> this issue further with you.

I agree that we should put this to rest.  The Java distribution scheme is
not currently under negotiation, so the whole discussion is moot.  Either
way, I would rather leave you understanding the Java constraints and how
they *can* work than to leave you believing that there is a fundamental
flaw that will prevent Java from reaching its goals.  If you persist in
expecting a specific behavior from Java and complaining about its lack
rather than seeing what is available in Java and how that can meet your
goals, then I agree that further discussion is pointless.  Why don't you
ask how something can be done than to claim that it can't be done because
the mechanism you want to use doesn't work?

    ...jim

------------------------------

From: Yuan Jiang <yjj@eng.umd.edu>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 21:49:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Fundamental flaw in Java library distribution scheme

In article <497p1o$jg3@news1.panix.com> you write:

>>method (in the sense that overloading methods creates new methods that
>>happen to share a common name), and it is not "just an overridden one"
>>
>>                                ...jim
>
>You are just saying again that overload resolution is done at
>compile time.  I think everybody knows that. David is arguing

Why do you need overload resolution.  Every overloading method
is different in one way or another from the rest, either in
the parameter list or the return type.  There is no duplication
among them.  No need to resolve anything.

Yuan

------------------------------

From: tgibson@li.net
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 10:06:49 -0500
Subject: Mac availability

 Does anyone have a reasonable guess on when Java will be available (alpha,
beta, anything)
for Macs ?

Thanks.
TomG

=========================
= Tom Gibson            =
= EMail: tgibson@li.net =
=========================



------------------------------

From: donpark@telewise.com (Don Park)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 06:07:35 -0800
Subject: Reshaping panels

Hi,

Its 5:30 am on Sunday in midst of Thanksgiving weekend and I am not having
much fun.

Absolute positioning of components have been talked about before with the
solution being:

        container.setLayout(null);
        component.reshape(x, y, width, height);
        container.add(component);

I expected the solution to work just fine with containers, specifically
Panels, but panels seem to act differently from non-containers.  Panels
added to applets using the above solution seem to be positioned and sized
correctly as far as the panel goes but its real Windows object (oh, did I
mention I was talking about Win32 version of JDK Beta 1?) is positioned at
0,0 of the parent and sized at 100, 100 (sounds familiar, Arthur?).  If I
remember correctly, Mr. "Have Fun" mentioned something about fixing a bug
involving 100 but I am not sure if it was pre-beta or what.

I have JDK B1 source also so I did a grep for SetWindowPos (many found) and
MoveWindow (none found).  All but one SetWindowPos was called by Reshape
methods of implementation strategy classes (AwtXXXX).  I must have had too
many beers because no matter how and where I call reshape, it does not get
through to the SetWindowPos.  BTW, is 100 someone's favorite number?  At
this point, I am frustrated enough to rewrite AWT rather than trying to
figure out where the spagetti sause is flowing to.  Sorry if I sound sour.
Its been a tough night.

Basically, I am working on a visual development tool for Java applets but I
having a hard time getting around the bugs and greens surrounding AWT.

Help!

Sincerely not having much fun,

Don "You can call me Super but I'll have to charge you" Park

PS: Please please expand Graphics class to include full graphics ops.
PSS: Failing that, just give me XOR.
PSSS: But before that I need UPDATE REGIONS and FULL TRACKING SUPPORT!
PSSSS: Please add class storage similar to Netscape's except with public API.
PSSSSS: Did I mention I charge by the hour?
PSSSSSS: If you are tired of all this PS, please blame Dave Winer.



------------------------------

From: David Gardiner <david.gardiner@unisa.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:08:03 +1000
Subject: 'JavaBASIC' update

Thanks for all the feedback, largely positive, which is great.

One of the important things that came out of this feedback was
the need for a language specification. What will this BASIC
look like?

Sam Weiss from Adobe has brought together a number of people
working on BASIC, and Object-oriented extensions to the language.

The first step I have made is to form a mailing list for this
discussion, which although not Java-specific, is very relevant
to developing a BASIC compiler for Java.

If you are interested in assisting this effort, subscribe to
the OOBASIC-L mailing list.

send mail to listproc@netspot.city.unisa.edu.au, with the body text:

SUBSCRIBE OOBASIC-L <firstname> <lastname>

Once this produces some 'fruit', then we will have something solid
to work from.

Some parallel work may also start to take place in investigating
the nuts and bolts of compiling to bytecodes, and other tasks that
haven't occurred to me, but have to others:-)

- -dave
- --
David Gardiner <><  Multimedia Programmer, Innovative Teaching & Learning
Flexible Learning Centre, Underdale Campus, University of South Australia
Email: david.gardiner@unisa.edu.au Ph: +61 8 302 6860 Fax: +61 8 302 6767


------------------------------

From: Nik Barthelemy <nbarthel@shrine.cyber.ad.jp>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:06:30 +0900 (JST)
Subject: Oops, sorry, wrong version

First of all, sorry.  It never fails that when you post code you get the 
wrong version up!  The version previously on my web page was a hack/slash 
experiment version.  Sorry to all who took the time to look the new 
version is up and should be the right one.

Once again sorry for the waste of time and bandwidth.

URL is http://shrine.cyber.ad.jp/~nbarthel

I will put up other ports as soon as they are clean. (net subtree stuff)

- -Nik ;)

CONTACT: nbarthel@shrine.cyber.ad.jp ++ + "...shooting stars never stop
Nik Barthelemy ++++++++++++++++++++++ +  even when they hit the top!"
Cyber Technologies International +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++by FrAnKiE    
Tokyo, Japan +++++++++++++++++++ + PHONE: (03) 3226-0961 / FAX (03) 3226-0962


------------------------------

From: MikeDacon@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:23:07 -0500
Subject: Java locale.h?

Hi fellow Java coders,

Is their any Java-equivalent to locale.h?

I don't think so; however, with Java's support for
UNICODE it would seem natural for them to support
other locales.

It could easily be some standard added properties
to the System properties.

 - Mike Daconta

------------------------------

From: Sami.Shaio@Eng.Sun.COM (Sami Shaio)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:46:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Reshaping panels

|From donpark@telewise.com Sun Nov 26 20:05:27 1995
|
|I expected the solution to work just fine with containers, specifically
|Panels, but panels seem to act differently from non-containers.  Panels
|added to applets using the above solution seem to be positioned and sized
|correctly as far as the panel goes but its real Windows object (oh, did I
|mention I was talking about Win32 version of JDK Beta 1?) is positioned at
|0,0 of the parent and sized at 100, 100 (sounds familiar, Arthur?).  If I
|remember correctly, Mr. "Have Fun" mentioned something about fixing a bug
|involving 100 but I am not sure if it was pre-beta or what.
|

It's a bug and it's been fixed but the fix hasn't been released yet.


|
|Basically, I am working on a visual development tool for Java applets but I
|having a hard time getting around the bugs and greens surrounding AWT.
|

Sorry. We're working as hard as we can with the resources we have (which
aren't many) to fix bugs. Things will definitely improve with future
releases.

But I should mention that if you're working on a visual tool for applets
and using absolute positioning then you're doing people a disservice 
when they're applet looks like crap on a platform other than the one
they developed it under.


- --sami

------------------------------

From: Gary Howland <gary@kampai.euronet.nl>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 02:13:08 +0100
Subject: Language extension proposal

I noticed recently that there are some discussions still going on about
extensions to the Java language.  I thought I would just take this
opportunity to suggest a few of language features that were missing from
C in the hope that they may be incorporated into Java.

One language feature that I would very much like to see would be a
"rotate" instruction - ie. a shift with wraparound.  Another feature
that I would like to see would be some sort of access to the carry
flag.  Another would be a way of determining the number of "1"s in
a word, and another would be a way to determine the topmost "1" in
a word.  These are features that are extremely useful in some areas
of programming (eg. low level graphic programming, cryptography
and comms), and would be very easy to implement.  I guess that the
main objection to such extensions may be due to resistance to add
more operators or syntax to the language, but I am sure that any
users would have no objection to using a built_in_bit_twiddle()
function if that is what it takes to get these into the language.
Just think - Java will then be able to outperform C in some areas!

Regards,

Gary Howland.

------------------------------

From: R Challinor <r-challi@csm.uwe.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 95 13:36:16 GMT
Subject: Re:- Weather service (where is it).

Can anyone tell me the URL for the javaised weather homepage.

It was mentioned a few weeks ago on the alias and, careless me, I've forgotten the address.

Much Appreciated

RC.

------------------------------

From: david.head@Corp.Sun.COM (David Head)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 06:24:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Java Customer Presentation Material.

Richard:

The Java Day presentations (from November 8th) are available on SunWIN in PC 
Powerpoint 4.0 format.

 Presentation   Presentor  Token#
 ------------   ---------  ------
 Java Day Morning Session Eric Scmidt  49784
     Danny Hillis
     Bill Joy
     Barbara Gordon
 The Java Programming Language James Gosling  49763
 Java Libraries   Arthur van Hoff  49686

And a bonus:

 Java: Bringing the  James Gosling  49654, 49657
 World Wide Web to Life

Regards,

Dave


> From daemon@java Sat Nov 25 01:37 PST 1995
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 17:24:03 +0800
> From: Richard.Wong@Asia (Richard Wong - Sun HK SE)
> To: java-interest@java.Eng.Sun.COM
> Subject: Java Customer Presentation Material.
> Cc: hotjava-interest@java.Eng.Sun.COM
> X-Info: To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe' to hotjava-interest-request@java.sun.com
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone provide pointers where I can find some high-level customer
> presentation material for both Java and Hotjava ? The purpose of my
> presentation is to promote the Java technology and the Hotjava browser.
> 
> Please respond directly to my mailbox as I'm not in this alias.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Richard
> 
> /****************************************************************************/
> /                                       Richard Wong                         /
> /                                       Systems Engineer                     /  
> /                                       Tel : (852) 2820-0665 (Direct)       /
> /                                       richard.wong@asia.sun.com            /
> /       _/_/_/  _/    _/  _/     _/                                          /
> /      _/      _/    _/  _/_/   _/      Sun Microsystems Computer Company    /
> /     _/_/_/  _/    _/  _/  _/ _/       22/F., Shui-On Centre                /
> /        _/  _/    _/  _/   _/_/        8 Harbour Road, Wanchai              /
> /   _/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/     _/         Hong Kong                            /
> /                                       Tel : (852) 2802-4188                /
> / M  I  C  R  O  S  Y  S  T  E  M  S    Fax : (852) 2802-8655                / 
> /                                                                            /
> /****************************************************************************/
> 
> -
> This message was sent to the hotjava-interest mailing list
> Info: send 'help' to hotjava-interest-request@java.sun.com
> 

------------------------------

From: "R.Volkmann" <m224873@svxtrm14.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 08:40:18 -0600
Subject: Re: Re[2]: RFC "Off the Web Java"

>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:13:06 +0000
>From: Horlock.Neil.at.ext06lon@ft.com (Horlock Neil)
>Cc: java-interest@java.sun.com
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Untitled"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
>Sender: owner-java-interest@java.sun.com
>Precedence: bulk
>X-Info: To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe' to java-interest-request@java.sun.com
>
>The template issue is one which has interested me recently. I am investigating
>Java from a geneeral language point of view with no fixed intention towards
>internet development but more towards extensible platform independent
>distributed applications. While I am no expert in OO languages the template
>mechanism in (recent) c++ seems anideal mechanism for general purpose
>collection classes and so forth. However templates are as far as I'm aware only
>a c++ feature, how do other OO languages deal with this issue esp. smalltalk
>and of course Java?

Templates are not needed in Smalltalk because:
- - variables can be set to refer to any object, not just objects of a
  certain type
- - all methods (or member functions in C++) are virtual

These features allow a collection class to contain objects of any class.
A message can be sent to any object in the collection that supports the
message.  Ideally you would only put objects into a collection that could
respond to all of the message you intend to send to objects in the collection.
The C++ camp will say that this is dangerous because sending messages to
objects that cannot respond to them will not be discovered until run-time.
The Smalltalk camp will say that, in practice, this is not a problem and that
most such errors are discovered in testing.  Since I'm not really a Smalltalk
programmer I'll let it go at that.

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| R. Mark Volkmann - Principal Specialist Programmer/Analyst                 |
| McDonnell Douglas Aerospace, St. Louis, Missouri, USA                      |
| EMAIL m224873@svmstr01.mdc.com, VOICE (314)232-0498, FAX (314)233-5489     |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 Reality is so unreal;  Like walking up a flight of stairs that lead nowhere;
 Like swimming in mashed potatoes;  Where's the gravy baby?;
 If you wish to place a call please hang up and dial again;
 Bunch of balloons;  Funny clown;  Is the circus in town?
 - poem by Cool Cat, Dirty Dog, and Chicky Baby from Pee Wee's Playhouse

------------------------------

From: crm@perpetua.dat.com (Craig R. McClanahan)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 07:48:07 +0800
Subject: Re: Re:- Weather service (where is it).

>>>>> "R Challinor" == R Challinor <r-challi@csm.uwe.ac.uk> writes:

    R Challinor> Can anyone tell me the URL for the javaised weather
    R Challinor> homepage.  It was mentioned a few weeks ago on the
    R Challinor> alias and, careless me, I've forgotten the address.

    R Challinor> Much Appreciated

Are you thinking of "Blue Skies for Java"?  It's at the University of
Michigan, at this URL:

 http://cirrus.sprl.umich.edu/javaweather/

- ----------
Craig R. McClanahan                     EMAIL:  crm@dat.com
DAT Services                            Phone:  503-526-6405
Beaverton, OR, USA                      Fax:    503-526-6442

------------------------------

From: "Michael J. Philbrick" <mikephil@dakota.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:40:12 -0600
Subject: Win 95 Help

Hi, My name is Mike Philbrick, and I generally program in MS Basic PDS 
7.1.  I have been on the list for a while, but just recently started 
trying to use Java.  

I first tried to make my own Applets and compile them before I followed 
the installation instructions.  I know everyone else always reads all 
the documentation!:)

My problem is I can't get the applet viewer to work.  I believe I have 
followed the installation instructions correctly, but I still get the 
unable to load awt.dll.  It is in my path.

Is there anyone who could help me?  Any ideas?  Thanks!

Mike

mikephil@dakota.net

------------------------------

From: "Ki Hong" <hongk@qmsmtpgw.mugu.navy.mil>
Date: 27 Nov 1995 08:56:21 U
Subject: Structure in Java

                      Structure in Java                            11/27/95

Hi all!

I need to define an array of two integer elements.
It is defined in C as follows:

typedef struct temp {
    int x;
    int y;
}tempstruct;

tempstruct xy[100];
tempstruct X, Y, Z;

Does anyone know how to define the above statements in Java?

The answer would be greatly appreciated!



------------------------------

From: Michael Lorton <mlorton@eshop.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 09:27:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Connecting to a server

>   Should this code work?

[Old fogey accent] Well, it weren't the way we usta doin' it.  We'd just

  this.mc = new Socket("funny.foo.edu", 1510);

No "connect" at all, but you kids with your newfangled ways a doin'
things, I just doan know...

M.

------------------------------

From: Michael Lorton <mlorton@eshop.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 09:27:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Connecting to a server

>   Should this code work?

[Old fogey accent] Well, it weren't the way we usta doin' it.  We'd just

  this.mc = new Socket("funny.foo.edu", 1510);

No "connect" at all, but you kids with your newfangled ways a doin'
things, I just doan know...

M.

------------------------------

From: "ian c rogers" <irogers@ghostfacekiller.biggun.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:00:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Odd timing on Turkey Day

On Nov 24,  4:54pm, Jim.Graham@Eng.Sun.COM wrote:
> Note that this repaint does not necessarily get executed immediately.
> The repaint method is called "as soon as possible", which means that it
> is scheduled to have its update method called at some time in the
> future with as little delay as possible.  In fact, all of your
> "scaledRepaint" calls but the last one may end up ignored as they are
> all collapsed into one repaint which is performed with your variables
> set up as per the most recent call to this method.

This explains quite a bit of the odd behavior I've been experiencing.  So can I
call repaint(1) to force a call within 1 millisecond and thus gain tigheter
control over the animation?  I'm guessing there is a caveot to this, what would
it be?

ian

- -- 
ian c rogers                         http://www.filmzone.com/
Big Gun Project                      http://www.crashsite.com/Crash/
irogers@biggun.com                   http://www.nando.net/music/gm/

------------------------------

From: "Greg Gentling" <GGentling@symantec.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 95 10:51:33 PST
Subject: Re: Mac availability

Yes, sometime around May of 96. Check out the Metrowerks page. Beta should be a 
couple of months sooner.

http://www.metrowerks.com/news/press/java.html

...Greg

_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mac availability
From:    tgibson@li.net at INTERNET
Date:    11/27/95  1:27 AM

 Does anyone have a reasonable guess on when Java will be available (alpha,
beta, anything)
for Macs ?

Thanks.
TomG

=========================
= Tom Gibson            =
= EMail: tgibson@li.net =
=========================


- -
This message was sent to the java-interest mailing list
Info: send 'help' to java-interest-request@java.sun.com



------------------------------

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