[3434] in Central_America
New quotes for Fri Jun 14
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Initializer.SysDaemon)
Fri Jun 14 01:41:05 1991
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 01:40:35 EDT
From: root@charon.MIT.EDU (Initializer.SysDaemon)
To: ca-mtg@bloom-beacon.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
acevedo (Gabriel):
Re: my ~/.project. Well, I *finally* got a job. Yay!!! (All of you
nosy ;) Central_America people reading this who don't really know me
don't understand how significant that is ...) Now, of course, I
screw myself over because now I actually have to get a life ... oh
dear ... I heard K-Mart had a special ...
Re: my job. I can be reached via e-mail at the following address:
"acevedo@sousa.enet.dec.com". Phone: (508) 486-6908. I will be
reading my Athena e-mail semi-regularly, and you can always call me
at home -- (617) 354-4518 -- and leave a messge on my fancy
answering machine.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming ...
---------------------------------------------
"When I have the map, I will be free, and the world will be different.
Because I have understanding."
"Understanding of what, master?"
"Digital watches. And soon I shall have understanding of video
cassette recorders and car telephones. And when I have understanding of
them, I shall have understanding of computers. And when I have
understanding of computers, *I* shall be the SUPREME BEING!!!"
-- Time Bandits
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
alin (Alin L D'Silva):
Alin L. D'Silva
Undergraduate Student
Email : alin@athena.mit.edu
Term : 69 Chestnut Street
Address : Cambridge, MA 02139-4835
(617) 492 6983
Permanent : 1264 W. Arthur, Rogers Park
Address : Chicago, IL 60626
(312) 508-1908
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
amgreene (Andrew Marc Greene):
Well, I'm back. But now I have no machine. Does anyone know what happened
to Gevalt? :-(
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
chiharu (Chiharu Osawa):
Jun 17 14:00 Japanese Reading TA
Jun 19 14:00 Japanese Reading TA
Jun 21 14:00 Japanese Reading TA
Jun 22 Pick up Prof.Fukuda at Logan
Jun 24-27 PESC (MIT)
Jun 25 Prof.Hori's visit to MIT
Jun 26-28 ACC (Park Plaza Hotel, Boston)
Jul 7 out of town
Jul 14-24 out of town
Jul 25 11:00 Road Test
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
colin (Colin A Wolden):
I'm Going to EUROPE!!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ishaw (Lin I. Shaw):
{From system: This user's .plan file is not world readable}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnrees (Jim Rees):
"Whether you believe you can do something or you believe you cannot,
you're probably right."
-random proverbial quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
marc (Marc Horowitz):
This probably belongs in Scary_Thoughts, actually, so respond there.
Wow.
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 04:24:30 GMT
From: tobis@meteor.wisc.edu (Michael Tobis)
Subject: Re: The RISKS of political correctness in computer science
Hal Pomerantz, it appears to me, has completely missed the point of Ed Nilges'
comments. It is more than "unfortunate" that the word "sexist" is used in an
argument about the emphasis which formal and rigorous thought should have in
computer education. It is symptomatic of a very significant risk to academic
thought which, rather incredibly, is leaking out of the liberal arts and soft
sciences into a critique of rigorous thinking itself.
In a nutshell, the problem is not the extent to which formal automata theory,
software engineering, verification, etc. should be presented in an
undergraduate program. The problem is that the issue is being attacked _on the
grounds_ of its social/political appropriateness, rather than its utility.
I have recently become aware of the extent to which the more ambitious
(generally female baby-boomer academic) proponents of "deconstruction" intend
to carry their philosophy. I was, in conversation with one such, discussing the
(well-known to RISKS readers) propensity of the press to garble matters with a
scientific content.
I mentioned a recent article in the New Republic on the future of energy, in
which hydrogen was mentioned as a possible energy source, pointing out its
plentiful "supply" in the world's oceans. (This is a common confusion with the
attractiveness of hydrogen as a _fuel_ for vehicles. Most readers will
understand that the second law of thermodynamics prevents the use of hydrogen
extracted from water as an energy _source_, since combustion restores it to a
component of water.)
I remarked that the part of the article that had most irritated me was the
admission that there were "technical problems" with the use of hydrogen as an
energy source, with a qualifier to the effect that "scientists are always
saying things are impossible and then finding out how to do them in the long
run". (another common misconception)
The female baby boomer academic in question responded that this was indeed the
case, and that "you scientists are so attached to your orthodoxies". Yes, the
law of entropy, folks, is not an enigma, not a strange but inevitable feature
of the fabric of the universe, nor an excellent approximation to reality whose
limits have yet to be discovered. It is a dogma, if the deconstructionists are
to be believed. What is more (here in the interests of preserving our
friendship the conversation had to be dropped) it is no more or less true than
"any other myth".
My guess is that had the conversation continued, the second law would be
denounced as sexist, since it had been promulgated almost exclusively by
wealthy or at least bourgeois white males. I have since discovered that there
is a literature of the "deconstruction" of science, which generally shows
little understanding of the pursuit of knowledge through rigourous thought, and
claims to deny the _existence_ of truth in an extravagantly radical way.
I looked up "physics" in the index of one "deconstruction of science" book,
since skimming the book showed so little attention to what is usually
considered to be the scientific enterprise. Sure enough, there was one such
reference. From memory, it said something like "The principal effect of the
beginnings of physics was to blur the boundaries between the aristocracy and
the serfs, since aristocrats found themselves doing manual labor." This was the
first reference to physics in the book. An effect, perhaps. The _principal_
effect???
There are many people who 1) are in positions of some power and influence at
universities 2) believe that there is no "truth" other than a matter of
"preference" and 3) that all discourse, whatever its explicit content, is
implicitly about the relations between the privileged and the oppressed. That
such people are the ones enforcing "political correctness" is not surprising.
The connection to the typical subject matter of this group is somewhat remote.
Mr. Nilges' comments are only an example of the broad problem, which should not
be underestimated, particularly by those of us with a broad sympathy with most
of the aims of feminism. I think the aspect that the readership of RISKS should
be concerned about is the amazing ignorance of what it is we
scientific/technological types do, among intelligent literate people, that
allows it to be construed as just another branch of politics.
I hope, with their moderators' permission, to continue this discussion in
soc.feminism .
Michael Tobis tobis@meteor.wisc.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
mojo (Mark A Johnson):
to write something i would have enjoyed reading
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
nagi (Maram V Nagendraprasad):
Home Phone: (617)-225-9798 Office Phone: 253-5040
or 253-4599
Projects involved in: Cosmos, Handwriting recognition.
Nickname: Nagi
Possible locations: 5-028 and E38-118
or Athena Cluster at 1-142.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
njw (Nicholas Williams):
Permanent home address:
The cottage, Castle Hill, Over Stowey,
Bridgwater, TA5 1ET
UK
E-mail to:
njw@doc.ic.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
rctsai (Richard C. Tsai):
{From system: This user's .plan file is not world readable}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
rjbarbal (Richard J. Barbalace):
Mi par d'essere con la testa My head seems to be
in un'orrida fucina, in a frightful forge
dove cresce e mai non resta where the persistent din
delle incudini sonore of the ringing anvils
l'importuno strepitar. grows louder and never ceases.
Alternando questo e quello Alternately this and that
pesantissimo martello gigantic hammer, with
fa con barbara armonia barbaric harmony, makes
muri e volte rimbombar. the walls and arches resound.
E il cervello, poverello, And the brain, poor little thing,
gi`a stordito, sbalordito, already stunned, stupefied,
non ragiona, si confonde, cannot reason, is confounded,
si riduce ad impazzar. is reduced to madness.
- Il barbiere di Siviglia - The Barber of Seville
Gioacchino Rossini
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
sethf (Seth Finkelstein):
[How convoluted these discussions become ... comp.risks.flames?]
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 91 15:33:46 -0400
From: Glen Ditchfield <gjditchfield@watmsg.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Political Correctness: DON'T PANIC!
I think that many of the people discussing this topic are reacting to other
people's interpretations of Bernstein's ideas, rather than to what the CACM
article of November 1990 actually says. For instance,
Ed Nilges: "Bernstein, according to Frankel, feels that Dijkstra is being
sexist!"
Hal Pomeranz: "It is unfortunate that Bernstein slings the word 'sexist'..."
Michael Tobis: "It is more than 'unfortunate' that the word 'sexist' is
used .... The problem is that the issue is being attacked _on the
grounds_ of its social/political appropriateness ..."
My bet is that if we all went back and read the CACM article, the
discussion would be shorter and calmer, and our Moderator would be happier.
Frenkel discusses Bernstein's ideas in six paragraphs of an eleven page
article. No one ever calls Dijkstra "sexist"; Bernstein believes
that Dijkstra's curriculum would cause disproportionate numbers of women to
drop out, but that is not the same as an accusation of sexism. Bernstein
does not call for the removal of formalism from computer science
curriculums; she just wants an introductory CS course, based on the use of
software packages as problem-solving tools, that would help to get women
hooked early.
Frenkel's interpretation of Bernstein's opinion of Dijkstra's proposal
comes down to two sentences:
Bernstein disagrees with this approach because it would discourage
those who want to "see, tinker, experiment, and interact" with
computers in order to understand principles. And so, she says,
Dijkstra's approach would cause computer science majors to further
dwindle.
To me, "those who want to 'see, tinker, experiment, and interact'" sounds
a lot like "hackers", who are stereotypically male. And note that the last
sentence does not say _women_ CS majors. Given earlier statistics and
later comments in the article, I think she is worried about the total
number of CS majors.
Of course, all of the above is just my reading of the article. Please
read it and form your own opinions.
Glen Ditchfield gjditchfield@violet.uwaterloo.ca Office: DC 2517 x3437
Dept. of Computer Science, U of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, N2L 3G1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
therese (Therese):
Corpulent generals safe behind lines
History's lessons drowned in red wine
Poppies for young men, death's bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
All of those young lives betrayed
All for a children's crusade
- Sting
Dream of the Blue Turtles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
warlord (Derek Atkins):
I plan to work at the Media Lab until I find
out about this potential offer from Sun MicroSystems...
Still waiting.
Still caring.
Still alone.
-_Midnight at the Well of Souls_ by Jack L. Chalker
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
yyoon (Yongsung Yoon):
{From system: This user's .plan file is not world readable}
--- End of Central America ---
