[99845] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Need a word for ...
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brent Kesler)
Thu Nov 20 11:09:58 2014
In-Reply-To: <2EC341AE-5F9E-4EC9-BA9D-5329A569E1B8@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:09:40 -0500
From: Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I'm starting to think this might be a culturally nuanced word that doesn't
have a good direct translation, but is so useful it ends up a loan word,
like "chutzpah" or "schadenfreude". Perhaps with some sort of folk
etymology...
tlhIngan wa': De'wI' patlh vItI' vIneH, 'ach Qatlhqu'! tI'meH Deghpu' vay',
ghIq Deghpu' vay' latlh, ghIq Deghpu' vay' latlh latlh. tInqu' mIS!
vIDelmeH mu'mey vIHulth.
tlhIngan cha': wanI'vam DelmeH mu' lughaj Humanpu': {QavtI'}.
tlhIngan wa': Qav... tI'?
tlhIngan cha': qar. vay' tI'meH Deghpu'DI' tI'wI', tI'wI' Qav gheS 'e' Har.
tI'wI' Qav gheS 'e' Har tI'wI' veb, tI'wI' veb je. ja' ngIq tI'wI', {Qav
tI'ghachvam}, 'ej mIS'a' mojmeH boqtaH Hoch tI'ghachmey. vaj, {QavtI'}.
bI'reng
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 10:01 AM, <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
> <<maSorHa=E2=80=99laH>> bIjatlh. wot {Sor} vIghovbe=E2=80=99. jIqay=E2=80=
=99 vIneHbe=E2=80=99. qen mu=E2=80=99mey
> qub wISuqpu=E2=80=99. We=E2=80=99ve gotten words for games we are clueles=
s on how to play.
> We=E2=80=99ve gotten words for geometric shapes. It just seemed like =E2=
=80=9Ccruft=E2=80=9D would
> be an interesting and useful word to have. I=E2=80=99d see it as useful a=
s
> {wejpuH}, which is a remarkably useful word.
>
> But it=E2=80=99s just an opinion, and not one with artificial importance.=
I
> perhaps implied artificial importance and that was unintentional and
> incorrect, and would have been dishonorable and inexcusable, were it my
> intent.
>
> Okrand doesn=E2=80=99t owe me any words. If he finds the word interesting=
,
> himself, he can make his own choice about it, if it ever occurs to him.
>
> lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh
> Retired Door Repair Guy
>
> > On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:21 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 4:03 PM, <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> but given the fully nuanced definition in Wikipedia
> >
> > DIvI' Hol mu' QIjchu'meH 'utchugh ghItlh tIn, wa' tlhIngan Hol mu'
> vIpIHbe'bej.
> >
> > To me, the word "cruft" itself merely means something like "detritus".
> > It carries in my mind an implication of material that has accreted or
> > has been exposed through erosion. It is not "garbage". To apply the
> > specific connotation apparently desired by tI'wI'nuv requires treating
> > it as computer jargon. Entire treatises are necessary to explain the
> > nuances to people who do not share the culture of those who brought
> > the word to its current state of meaning.
> >
> > chaq maSorHa'laH. bobcho' mIl? De' vorSaq? tlhoy DeHbogh De'wI' jan?
> > qal'aq notlh?
> >
> > -- ghunchu'wI'
> >
> > P.S. One of those supersonic nuclear bombers is on display
> > approximately 15 miles from my home. Attached to its underbelly is
> > said to be the only actual nuclear bomb casing (meaning it once
> > contained a working nuclear bomb) able to be touched by the general
> > public.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> > Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> > http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm starting to think this might be a culturally nuanc=
ed word that doesn't have a good direct translation, but is so useful i=
t ends up a loan word, like "chutzpah" or "schadenfreude&quo=
t;. Perhaps with some sort of folk etymology...<div><br></div><div>tlhIngan=
wa': De'wI' patlh vItI' vIneH, 'ach Qatlhqu'! tI&#=
39;meH Deghpu' vay', ghIq Deghpu' vay' latlh, ghIq Deghpu&#=
39; vay' latlh latlh. tInqu' mIS! vIDelmeH mu'mey vIHulth.</div=
><div>tlhIngan cha': wanI'vam DelmeH mu' lughaj Humanpu': {=
QavtI'}.</div><div>tlhIngan wa': Qav... tI'?</div><div>tlhIngan=
cha': qar. vay' tI'meH Deghpu'DI' tI'wI', tI&#=
39;wI' Qav gheS 'e' Har. tI'wI' Qav gheS 'e' Ha=
r tI'wI' veb, tI'wI' veb je. ja' ngIq tI'wI', {=
Qav tI'ghachvam}, 'ej mIS'a' mojmeH boqtaH Hoch tI'ghac=
hmey. vaj, {QavtI'}.</div><div><br></div><div>bI'reng</div><div><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, No=
v 20, 2014 at 10:01 AM, <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7w=
i7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span>=
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><<maSorHa=E2=80=99laH>&g=
t; bIjatlh. wot {Sor} vIghovbe=E2=80=99. jIqay=E2=80=99 vIneHbe=E2=80=99. q=
en mu=E2=80=99mey qub wISuqpu=E2=80=99. We=E2=80=99ve gotten words for game=
s we are clueless on how to play. We=E2=80=99ve gotten words for geometric =
shapes. It just seemed like =E2=80=9Ccruft=E2=80=9D would be an interesting=
and useful word to have. I=E2=80=99d see it as useful as {wejpuH}, which i=
s a remarkably useful word.<br>
<br>
But it=E2=80=99s just an opinion, and not one with artificial importance. I=
perhaps implied artificial importance and that was unintentional and incor=
rect, and would have been dishonorable and inexcusable, were it my intent.<=
br>
<br>
Okrand doesn=E2=80=99t owe me any words. If he finds the word interesting, =
himself, he can make his own choice about it, if it ever occurs to him.<br>
<span><br>
lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh<br>
Retired Door Repair Guy<br>
<br>
</span><div><div>> On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:21 PM, Alan Anderson <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>>=
; wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 4:03 PM,=C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7=
wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>> wrote=
:<br>
>> but given the fully nuanced definition in Wikipedia<br>
><br>
> DIvI' Hol mu' QIjchu'meH 'utchugh ghItlh tIn, wa' =
tlhIngan Hol mu' vIpIHbe'bej.<br>
><br>
> To me, the word "cruft" itself merely means something like &=
quot;detritus".<br>
> It carries in my mind an implication of material that has accreted or<=
br>
> has been exposed through erosion. It is not "garbage". To ap=
ply the<br>
> specific connotation apparently desired by tI'wI'nuv requires =
treating<br>
> it as computer jargon. Entire treatises are necessary to explain the<b=
r>
> nuances to people who do not share the culture of those who brought<br=
>
> the word to its current state of meaning.<br>
><br>
> chaq maSorHa'laH. bobcho' mIl? De' vorSaq? tlhoy DeHbogh D=
e'wI' jan?<br>
> qal'aq notlh?<br>
><br>
> -- ghunchu'wI'<br>
><br>
> P.S. One of those supersonic nuclear bombers is on display<br>
> approximately 15 miles from my home. Attached to its underbelly is<br>
> said to be the only actual nuclear bomb casing (meaning it once<br>
> contained a working nuclear bomb) able to be touched by the general<br=
>
> public.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
@kli.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" target=
=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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