[99532] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] this / that as subject
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brad Wilson)
Wed Sep 24 10:41:56 2014
To: robyn@flyingstart.ca, philip.newton@gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <000901cfd7f9$6fd36ff0$4f7a4fd0$@flyingstart.ca>
From: Brad Wilson <bmacliam@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:41:35 -0400
Cc: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Sulugh.=20Of=20course,=20one=20can't=20put=20a=20noun=20suffix=20on=20a=20pronou=
n=20acting=20as=20a=20verb.=20nom=20jIghItlh=20'ach=20QIt=20jIQub.=0A=0A=0AHowev=
er,=20when=20acting=20as=20a=20noun,=20a=20pronoun=20can=20clearly=20take=20noun=
=20suffixes=20{SoHvaD,=20'oHmo',=20etc}=20so=20using=20{'oHvetlh}=20doesn't=20au=
tomatically=20sound=20wrong=20to=20me.=20I=20was=20simply=20asking=20if=20there=20=
was=20precedent=20-=20which,=20based=20on=20the=20response,=20I=20take=20to=20be=
=20"no".=0A=0A=0AWhich=20then=20raises=20the=20question,=20is=20Type=205=20the=20=
"only"=20noun=20suffix=20allowed=20on=20pronouns?=20Using=20{SoHHom}=20would=20e=
ither=20elicit=20a=20confused=20look=20or=20a=20punch=20in=20the=20face.=20And=20=
Type=204=20possessives=20hardly=20seem=20useful=20-=20{SoHwI'=20?!?}.=0A=0A=0Agh=
eyIl=0A=0A=0A-----Original=20Message-----=0AFrom:=20Robyn=20Stewart=20<robyn@fly=
ingstart.ca>=0ATo:=20'Philip=20Newton'=20<philip.newton@gmail.com>;=20'Brad=20Wi=
lson'=20<bmacliam@aol.com>=0ACc:=20'tlhIngan=20Hol=20mailing=20list'=20<tlhingan=
-hol@kli.org>=0ASent:=20Wed,=20Sep=2024,=202014=209:14=20am=0ASubject:=20RE:=20[=
Tlhingan-hol]=20this=20/=20that=20as=20subject=0A=0A=0Alugh=20Philip,=20'ej=20ba=
tlh=20QIj.=0A=0APersonally,=20where=20English=20says=20"This=20is=20a=20chair"=20=
"That=20is=20my=20father"=20I=20just=20say=20=0A<quS=20'oH>=20<vavwI'=20ghaH>,=20=
and=20point.=20Is=20there=20a=20functional=20difference?=0A=0A-=20Qov=0A=0A-----=
Original=20Message-----=0AFrom:=20Philip=20Newton=20[mailto:philip.newton@gmail.=
com]=20=0ASent:=20September=2024,=202014=200:36=0ATo:=20Brad=20Wilson=0ACc:=20tl=
hIngan=20Hol=20mailing=20list=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[Tlhingan-hol]=20this=20/=20tha=
t=20as=20subject=0A=0AOn=2024=20September=202014=2004:17,=20Brad=20Wilson=20<bma=
cliam@aol.com>=20wrote:=0A>=20I=20was=20thinking=20that=20there=20is=20no=20way=20=
to=20use=20"this"=20and=20"that"=20as=20nouns=20=0A>=20except=20as=20suffixes=20=
like=20{Dochvam=20/=20Dochvetlh}.=0A=0A{Dochvam=20/=20Dochvetlh}=20are=20what=20=
I=20usually=20see=20for=20=E2=80=9Cthis=E2=80=9D=20and=20=E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=9D,=
=20=0Arespectively.=0A=0A>=20Then=20I=20thought=20that=20a=20sentence=20like=20"=
This=20is=20my=20ship"=20might=20be=20=0A>=20rendered=20as=20{DujwIj=20'oHvam}.=0A=
=0AI=20think=20not.=20In=20{DujwIj=20'oH},=20the=20{'oH}=20is=20acting=20as=20a=20=
verb,=20in=20my=20opinion,=20so=20=0Ait=20can=20only=20take=20verbal=20suffixes=E2=
=80=94you=20could=20say=20{DujwIj=20'oHbej},=20for=20example,=20or=20=0A{DujwIj=20=
'oHbe'}.=0A=0AI=20would=20recommend=20{DujwIj=20'oH=20Dujvam'e'}.=0A=0AAnd=20eve=
n=20if=20{'oH}=20were=20acting=20as=20a=20noun,=20{'oHvam}=20would=20mean=20*=E2=
=80=9Cthis=20it=E2=80=9D=20(as=20=0Aopposed=20to=20=E2=80=9Canother=20it=E2=80=9D=
?),=20which=20would=20make=20little=20sense=20to=20me.=0A=0ACheers,=0APhilip=0A-=
-=0APhilip=20Newton=20<philip.newton@gmail.com>=0A=0A___________________________=
____________________=0ATlhingan-hol=20mailing=20list=0ATlhingan-hol@kli.org=0Aht=
tp://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol=0A=0A=0A=20=0A=0A
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<font=20color=3D'black'=20size=3D'2'=20face=3D'arial'><font=20face=3D"arial">Sul=
ugh.=20</font><span=20style=3D"font-family:=20Helvetica,=20Arial,=20sans-serif;=20=
font-size:=2010pt;">Of=20course,=20one=20can't=20put=20a=20noun=20suffix=20on=20=
a=20pronoun=20acting=20as=20a=20verb. </span><span=20style=3D"font-family:=20=
arial;=20font-size:=2013.1428575515747px;">nom=20jIghItlh=20'ach=20QIt=20jIQub.<=
/span>=0A<div><br>=0A=0A<div=20style=3D"font-family:=20arial;">However,=20when=20=
acting=20as=20a=20noun,=20a=20pronoun=20can=20clearly=20take=20noun=20suffixes=20=
{SoHvaD,=20'oHmo',=20etc}=20so=20using=20{'oHvetlh}=20doesn't=20automatically=20=
sound=20wrong=20to=20me. <span=20style=3D"font-family:=20Helvetica,=20Arial=
,=20sans-serif;=20font-size:=2010pt;">I=20was=20simply=20asking=20if=20there=20w=
as=20precedent=20-=20which,=20based=20on=20the=20response,=20I=20take=20to=20be=20=
"no".</span></div>=0A=0A<div=20style=3D"font-family:=20arial;"><br>=0A</div>=0A=0A=
<div=20style=3D"font-family:=20arial;">Which=20then=20raises=20the=20question,=20=
is=20Type=205=20the=20"only" <span=20style=3D"font-size:=2013.1428575515747=
px;">noun=20suffix allowed=20on=20pronouns?=20Using=20{SoHHom}=20would=20ei=
ther=20elicit=20a=20confused=20look=20or=20a=20punch=20in=20the=20face.=20And=20=
Type=204=20possessives=20hardly=20seem=20useful=20-=20{SoHwI'=20?!?}.</span></di=
v>=0A=0A<div=20style=3D"font-family:=20arial;"><br>=0A</div>=0A=0A<div=20style=3D=
"font-family:=20arial;">gheyIl<br>=0A<br>=0A=0A<div=20style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original=20Message-----<br>=0AFrom:=20=
Robyn=20Stewart=20<robyn@flyingstart.ca><br>=0ATo:=20'Philip=20Newton'=20&=
lt;philip.newton@gmail.com>;=20'Brad=20Wilson'=20<bmacliam@aol.com><br>=
=0ACc:=20'tlhIngan=20Hol=20mailing=20list'=20<tlhingan-hol@kli.org><br>=0A=
Sent:=20Wed,=20Sep=2024,=202014=209:14=20am<br>=0ASubject:=20RE:=20[Tlhingan-hol=
]=20this=20/=20that=20as=20subject<br>=0A<br>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A<div=20id=3D"AOLMsgP=
art_0_afef79ba-6d25-4b28-8705-2c150d12c7f2"=20style=3D"margin:=200px;font-family=
:=20Tahoma,=20Verdana,=20Arial,=20Sans-Serif;font-size:=2012px;color:=20#000;bac=
kground-color:=20#fff;">=0A=0A<pre=20style=3D"font-size:=209pt;"><tt>lugh=20Phil=
ip,=20'ej=20batlh=20QIj.=0A=0APersonally,=20where=20English=20says=20"This=20is=20=
a=20chair"=20"That=20is=20my=20father"=20I=20just=20say=20=0A<quS=20'oH>=20=
<vavwI'=20ghaH>,=20and=20point.=20Is=20there=20a=20functional=20difference=
?=0A=0A-=20Qov=0A=0A-----Original=20Message-----=0AFrom:=20Philip=20Newton=20[<a=
=20href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com?">mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com</a>]=20=
=0ASent:=20September=2024,=202014=200:36=0ATo:=20Brad=20Wilson=0ACc:=20tlhIngan=20=
Hol=20mailing=20list=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[Tlhingan-hol]=20this=20/=20that=20as=20=
subject=0A=0AOn=2024=20September=202014=2004:17,=20Brad=20Wilson=20<<a=20href=
=3D"mailto:bmacliam@aol.com">bmacliam@aol.com</a>>=20wrote:=0A>=20I=20was=20=
thinking=20that=20there=20is=20no=20way=20to=20use=20"this"=20and=20"that"=20as=20=
nouns=20=0A>=20except=20as=20suffixes=20like=20{Dochvam=20/=20Dochvetlh}.=0A=0A=
{Dochvam=20/=20Dochvetlh}=20are=20what=20I=20usually=20see=20for=20=E2=80=9Cthis=
=E2=80=9D=20and=20=E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=9D,=20=0Arespectively.=0A=0A>=20Then=20=
I=20thought=20that=20a=20sentence=20like=20"This=20is=20my=20ship"=20might=20be=20=
=0A>=20rendered=20as=20{DujwIj=20'oHvam}.=0A=0AI=20think=20not.=20In=20{DujwI=
j=20'oH},=20the=20{'oH}=20is=20acting=20as=20a=20verb,=20in=20my=20opinion,=20so=
=20=0Ait=20can=20only=20take=20verbal=20suffixes=E2=80=94you=20could=20say=20{Du=
jwIj=20'oHbej},=20for=20example,=20or=20=0A{DujwIj=20'oHbe'}.=0A=0AI=20would=20r=
ecommend=20{DujwIj=20'oH=20Dujvam'e'}.=0A=0AAnd=20even=20if=20{'oH}=20were=20act=
ing=20as=20a=20noun,=20{'oHvam}=20would=20mean=20*=E2=80=9Cthis=20it=E2=80=9D=20=
(as=20=0Aopposed=20to=20=E2=80=9Canother=20it=E2=80=9D?),=20which=20would=20make=
=20little=20sense=20to=20me.=0A=0ACheers,=0APhilip=0A--=0APhilip=20Newton=20<=
<a=20href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com">philip.newton@gmail.com</a>>=0A=0A=
_______________________________________________=0ATlhingan-hol=20mailing=20list=0A=
<a=20href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a>=0A<a=20href=3D=
"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"=20target=3D"_blank">http://m=
ail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a>=0A=0A</tt></pre>=0A</div>=0A=20<!-=
-=20end=20of=20AOLMsgPart_0_afef79ba-6d25-4b28-8705-2c150d12c7f2=20-->=0A=0A=0A=0A=
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