[98963] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] lung
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Fri Jun 20 17:20:43 2014
In-Reply-To: <53A4A057.4040103@trimboli.name>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 23:20:24 +0200
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Cc: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Correct. But as with some bird names we have, {-'a'} might refer to a
larger species here or perhaps one with much more prominent features, as
you say. So {ghargh'a'} can indeed refer to a very large/prominent worm or
snake species. But not simply any large species. I don't know how the
snakey dragons you mentioned look like, perhaps with claws and legs and
maybe even wings, {lung} might be a better term. If they look like really
huge snakes, more or less (those sandworms from Dune or Star Wars come to
mind), {ghargh'a'} might indeed be suitable. But that word could be
suitable for boas and anacondas too. It depends on where you draw the
arbitrary line between N and N-'a'. After all, it's just a suggestion.
Interpretation depends on the speaker. After all, the meaning we got from
Okrand is "serpent, worm". We don't know how big Klingon gharghmey can be.
So my interpretation is as good as yours, I'd say. And apparently the
person who translated ghIlghameS (I have the book at home but not here)
also interpreted the word in this way.
On Jun 20, 2014 10:58 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 6/20/2014 4:51 PM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wrote:
>
>> I would not understand it in that meaning. I would understand either a
>> huge kind of worm (something living in the deep sea or something) or a
>> very large serpent, like an anaconda or boa. That was also the kind I
>> used this word for. For a small snake like a viper it wouldn't probably
>> be suitable.
>>
>> But a snake-like dragon? Nah.
>>
>
> But the -'a' suffix doesn't just make something bigger; it makes the noun
> into something different that is more important, more grand, or, yes, als=
o
> bigger than the original.
>
> For instance, {mIv'a'} doesn't mean "big, honkin' helmet"; it means
> "crown."
>
> {ghargh'a'} wouldn't mean "really big snake" or "snake that's even more
> snakelike than a regular snake." It means a thing that is like a snake bu=
t
> is bigger or more important, and isn't just a snake. The only thing I can
> think of that fits that description is a dragon or something of that ilk:
> basilisk, wyvern, hydra.
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2014 7:53 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name
>> <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
>>
>> On 6/20/2014 12:42 PM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wrote:
>>
>> 2014-06-20 18:27 GMT+02:00 SuStel:
>>
>> On 6/20/2014 12:22 PM, Gaerfindel wrote:
>>
>> How does one differentiate, say, a lizard from a snake.
>> Both
>> use {lung}, I would assume?
>>
>>
>> lung
>>
>> >> lizard
>>
>>
>> ghargh
>>
>> >> serpent, worm
>>
>>
>> Someone on Star Trek somewhere along the line misinterpreted
>> {ghargh} "serpent, worm" as "serpent worm," a particular kin=
d
>> of
>> worm, and the bad pronunciation gave us {qagh}, which they
>> pronounced like gaH or gagh. But the general word for a
>> creature
>> in the form of a serpent (like a snake) would be {ghargh}.
>>
>>
>> I used {ghargh'a'} before to describe a snake. The augmentative
>> suffix makes the snakeness (serpentity?) a bit more explicit.
>>
>>
>> {ghargh'a'} doesn't mean "more snakey snake." I would use it to mean
>> "dragon of the worm-like variety." The types of dragons usually
>> pictured in Dungeons & Dragons art I would call a {lung'a'}.
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://www.trimboli.name/
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/__listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>> <http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>>
>>
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Correct. But as with some bird names we have, {-'a'}=
might refer to a larger species here or perhaps one with much more promine=
nt features, as you say. So {ghargh'a'} can indeed refer to a very =
large/prominent worm or snake species. But not simply any large species. I =
don't know how the snakey dragons you mentioned look like, perhaps with=
claws and legs and maybe even wings, {lung} might be a better term. If the=
y look like really huge snakes, more or less (those sandworms from Dune or =
Star Wars come to mind), {ghargh'a'} might indeed be suitable. But =
that word could be suitable for boas and anacondas too. It depends on where=
you draw the arbitrary line between N and N-'a'. After all, it'=
;s just a suggestion. Interpretation depends on the speaker. After all, the=
meaning we got from Okrand is "serpent, worm". We don't know=
how big Klingon gharghmey can be. So my interpretation is as good as yours=
, I'd say. And apparently the person who translated ghIlghameS (I have =
the book at home but not here) also interpreted the word in this way.<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 20, 2014 10:58 PM, "SuStel" <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote=
:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 6/20/2014 4:51 PM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I would not understand it in that meaning. I would understand either a<br>
huge kind of worm (something living in the deep sea or something) or a<br>
very large serpent, like an anaconda or boa. That was also the kind I<br>
used this word for. For a small snake like a viper it wouldn't probably=
<br>
be suitable.<br>
<br>
But a snake-like dragon? Nah.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
But the -'a' suffix doesn't just make something bigger; it make=
s the noun into something different that is more important, more grand, or,=
yes, also bigger than the original.<br>
<br>
For instance, {mIv'a'} doesn't mean "big, honkin' helm=
et"; it means "crown."<br>
<br>
{ghargh'a'} wouldn't mean "really big snake" or "=
;snake that's even more snakelike than a regular snake." It means =
a thing that is like a snake but is bigger or more important, and isn't=
just a snake. The only thing I can think of that fits that description is =
a dragon or something of that ilk: basilisk, wyvern, hydra.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
On Jun 20, 2014 7:53 PM, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@tr=
imboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a><br>
<mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel=
@trimboli.name</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 6/20/2014 12:42 PM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2014-06-20 18:27 GMT+02:00 SuStel:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 6/20/2014 12:22 PM, Gaerfindel=
wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 How does one differ=
entiate, say, a lizard from a snake.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Both<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 use {lung}, I would=
assume?<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lung<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> lizard<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ghargh<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> serpent, worm<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Someone on Star Trek somewhere al=
ong the line misinterpreted<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 {ghargh} "serpent, worm"=
; as "serpent worm," a particular kind of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 worm, and the bad pronunciation g=
ave us {qagh}, which they<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pronounced like gaH or gagh. But =
the general word for a creature<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the form of a serpent (like a =
snake) would be {ghargh}.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I used {ghargh'a'} before to describe a=
snake. The augmentative<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 suffix makes the snakeness (serpentity?) a bit =
more explicit.<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 {ghargh'a'} doesn't mean "more snakey snake.=
" I would use it to mean<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "dragon of the worm-like variety." The types of dra=
gons usually<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pictured in Dungeons & Dragons art I would call a {lung&#=
39;a'}.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SuStel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.trimboli.name/</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<u></u>___________________<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
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ingan-hol@kli.org</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a>><br>
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l" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/__<u></u>listinfo/tlhingan=
-hol</a><br>
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hol" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/tlhingan=
-hol</a>><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.trimboli=
.name/</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
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ank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
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